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K - reaction to Obama
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Of course the neo-liberal response to your charge is that the history of racism in the U.S. justifies Black racism.


Steve, I think you've misunderstood the term "neo-liberal" there. Just to clarify, neo-liberal means something like "classical liberal"(ie. someone who favors unregulated markets) and is usually used by leftists to refer to their right-wing opponents.

Jesse Jackson is a liberal.

Margaret Thatcher is a neo-liberal. (Or at least is called such by leftists.)
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seoulshock



Joined: 12 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
thepeel let slip:

Quote:
I'm neither Korean nor American either. But when I was reading about that Judge in the DC area who sued those Korean dry cleaners for millions and millions of $ for a pair of pants it seemed that race was a major part of it (the judge was black). The comments in the WaPo were very strong.


Neither do you have your facts straight, as usual. The judge who sued those KorAms is white and he was turned out by the voters after he lost his case. The judge was shown to have had a history of mental instability as well. Rolling Eyes


You mean Judge Roy L. Pearson Jr.????

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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:
Are there degrees of racism, in this sense? If you believe your race is genetically superior to another, you are a racist. Right?


I think that's right. But its a very different sort of racism between one who is a xenophobic racist and another who thinks that their race is superior enough to rise to the top in a fully meritocratic society.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
thepeel let slip:

Quote:
I'm neither Korean nor American either. But when I was reading about that Judge in the DC area who sued those Korean dry cleaners for millions and millions of $ for a pair of pants it seemed that race was a major part of it (the judge was black). The comments in the WaPo were very strong.


Neither do you have your facts straight, as usual. The judge who sued those KorAms is white and he was turned out by the voters after he lost his case. The judge was shown to have had a history of mental instability as well. Rolling Eyes


No. The judge was black. Pick up a newspaper.


http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21969517-5006003,00.html

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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the Judge a Boule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boule

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey7gDJfRICA

Boo-lay-boo ...
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTOH:

I hear ya but it depends on who you ask. The criticalists on the Far Left label them neo-liberals while the Thatchers and Bushies are neo-cons.

But, yeah, if you situate it historically, especially with reference to economics, it's misapplied.

Anyway, the Far Left is mostly neo-Marxist, having distanced themselves now from the "vulgar Marxists."

That's why I prefer the essentialist route: I just call them ALL liberals. Wink

thepeel:

Hold onto your seat because I'm about to jolt you:

You're right! I got it wrong this time or as Black lingo goes "My bad." I misinterpreted the news story on this frivilous lawsuit. ABC News ran a 4 page detailed account of this case before and after and not once did they mention that Pearson is Black. Nor did they even hint at a racial motivation. That's bad reporting but very PC journalism nowadays, revealing part of the problem with liberal reporting.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=3119381&page=1

They shy away from incidents involving racism between minorities. My assumption that Pearson is White reveals my generational disposition, namely, that I grew accustomed to the media always indicating the race of defendents in news stories about courtroom cases long before this was considered unnecessarily provocative or irrelevant.

In fact, as you pointed out, the Judge's race is relevant; there is bad blood between Blacks and Korean Americans. Actually, in Houston, it is directed toward Vietnamese and Chinese. Pearson is a textbook case of the victimhood mentality, so much in vogue in the Black community these days and spreading to all communities (i.e. I doubt all 63 witnesses he planned to have testify were Black). And the liberal media can't see the fact that many Asian American small business owners resent how so many of their minority customers aren't as industrious.

Had I not been so quick to retort, I would have realized the possibility that Pearson is Black. And I gave to much credence to ABC News. I mean, c'mon, a four page article that doesn't even touch on race? That's pretty sad.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of my coworkers thought the dude was white. It was their default assumption. They also thought that the VT killings would have a "massive" backlash against Asians. Both assumptions were wrong.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked another Korean today how he would feel if Obama were elected. He said it wouldn't matter. He said the US policy of stability would not change, no matter who is elected president. Besides, he said, Korea and the US are allies.
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Czarjorge



Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering, given the fact that it seems to be either Obama or Clinton, and there is a standing stereotype that Asians, given the nature of stereotypes I'm assuming Koreans are included, view women and black men as having lower social standing, does it really matter?

That aside, both Clinton and Obama have distinct advantages over Bush. Hilly has Billy, a man that was pretty damn beloved around the world. Obama has the benefit of being a new face untainted by the last few years of problematic US foreign policy. Wouldn't Koreans, regardless of their predispositions, prefer either one over Bush?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans would prefer anyone at all over Bush. He's not well liked here.

I've had a thought about this. Koreans tend to respond to the position more than the individual filling the position. It's a cultural thing. I think that's one more reason they won't react much to a black or a woman filling the job.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

I've had a thought about this. Koreans tend to respond to the position more than the individual filling the position. It's a cultural thing. I think that's one more reason they won't react much to a black or a woman filling the job.


I don't think younger Koreans are nearly as sexist/racist as their parents. America has a chance to set an example, with either Hillary or Barack (or even with Hispanic Richardson).
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
Of course the neo-liberal response to your charge is that the history of racism in the U.S. justifies Black racism.


Steve, I think you've misunderstood the term "neo-liberal" there. Just to clarify, neo-liberal means something like "classical liberal"(ie. someone who favors unregulated markets) and is usually used by leftists to refer to their right-wing opponents.

Jesse Jackson is a liberal.

Margaret Thatcher is a neo-liberal. (Or at least is called such by leftists.)


I do not know what a neo-liberal is. It has never been properly defined. I think, mostly, it is just a pejorative used against people leftists don't like circa 2001. Now, neo-con has replaced it.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do not know what a neo-liberal is. It has never been properly defined. I think, mostly, it is just a pejorative used against people leftists don't like circa 2001. Now, neo-con has replaced it.


You're right that they're used largely as pejorative terms, but I would still say that there is a clear distinction between what is meant by "neo-liberal" and "neo-conservative". At least in my understanding of the words.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. Clinton and even a Socialist like Bachelet can be neoLiberal. In fact, anyone who embraces classical Liberal economics (free trade, open doors, privatization, specialization, comparative advantage, etc.) can be. But only the W. Bush Administration's top officials seem to be neoConservatives. I also agree that the latter is really hard to define and has not been sufficiently defined by its users. Clearly it means "very bad person" to the simplistic leftists.

I remember BLT used to call people who swam outside his far, far left circles "C/NC": "Conservative/NeoConservative," I believe. Never had any idea what he meant by it.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But only the W. Bush Administration's top officials seem to be neoConservatives. I also agree that the latter is really hard to define and has not been sufficiently defined by its users.


I personally limit its use to the ex-leftists who were huddled around Commentary Magazine in the 1960s and their latter-day followers at the Weekly Stadard etc, some of whom went on to have prominent roles in the Reagan and Bush II administrations, leading the charge toward the current war in Iraq. They tend to advocate an interventionist foreign policy, and be pro-Israeli.

Quote:
Notwithstanding this episode, Bush 43 still sometimes drew on his father's wide knowledge of the world. Though he refused to read newspapers, he was aware of criticism that his administration had been excessively beholden to a particular clique, and wanted to know more about them. One day during that holiday, according to friends of the family, 43 asked his father, "What's a neocon?"

"Do you want names, or a description?" answered 41.

"Description."

"Well," said the former president of the United States, "I'll give it to you in one word: Israel."



http://www.slate.com/id/2160462/
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