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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: And, then there is experience. |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
Cthulhu and Gord,
In part, I agree with you. However, do experience and credentials (i.e., recognized professional certificates) in teaching and English education contribute to the determination of the salary? Have you ever noticed that a foreigner with 10 years expereince in TEFL (or English education) is paid and provided similar benefits to someone with 1 year of teaching experience? Why does a foreigner with 15 years teaching experience get the same salary as someone with 2 years teaching experience? Does experience matter? What is the salary scale for your university or place of employment? |
Why do you care? No really, WHY?
I am not really a Bible thumper, but figured you might want to read something that has truth to it:
Matthew 20:8-15
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+20&version=NKJV&language=english&showfn=on&showxref=on
There is a link check it out. |
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William Beckerson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: And, then there is experience. |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
I am not really a Bible thumper, but figured you might want to read something that has truth to it:
Matthew 20:8-15 |
Austin 3:16 also has some truth to it. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Pink,
Have you ever noticed these words:
The salary is commensurate with experience and salary history.
or
salary commensurate with education and experience
Well, experience is indicated as a factor in determining the salary.
The more experience, the higher the salary. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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RR,
Can't say I have seen those words when looking for the jobs I took. I took my first job from a recruiter, lasted 2 yrs there, they paid some guy more than me in my 2nd year, but hey I agreed to what I agreed to. My 3rd year, I just approached the school I wanted to work at and they took me...again they made me an offer I could live with, so I took it. After that, got my current job from a teacher who was working there at the time. Wasn't advertised. And still there over 3yrs later.
I haven't been looking for a job since. So I check out daves board sometimes and see that, but to me that just means they will try to pay you on what they can get away with. IF you agree to that, what right do you have to complain? You shouldnt take the job if you have a problem with that.
So again, why do you care? Don't take the job if you think there will be a problem, don't work in Korea. Already we have people with 1-2 year masters who are living some pipe dream they really are a professor. Again I will repeat what you really are: overpaid, over pampered, glorified hawgwon teachers. Yup you get WAY more for doing WAY less than a hawgwon teacher. Prove me wrong on this. No one with an MA is going to be able to, sorry, with an MA you are NOT a real professor. With a Ph.D, you ARE treated differently.
I have posted on this somewhere before, this issue HAS been raised so many times...universities hire REAL professors with Ph.D's...just you usually don't see those jobs advertised much on Dave's board.
Final question: what visa does someone teaching at a university with a master's get...will comment more on this later. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Cthulhu wrote: |
Have to agree with Gord on this one. Even if we accept the fact that a number of Korean professors have less than honest PhD's, they still have to study for 4+ years over the average foreigner with an MA, to say nothing of those with just BA's, few as they are. I wouldn't expect someone with an MA to get the same treatment as someone with a PhD--would you? And Korean profs at my former university had to go to a lot of meetings, had long office hours and had to do more marking than I ever did. I might not respect all of their degrees (though one would expect a number of them worked hard for them) but I do respect the time and money it took them to get where they are. At the very least, one could go back home to get that PhD and return to Korea to prove the point in the original post.
Now, if a foreigner with a PhD teaching his major is being treated like dirt in comparison with the Korean profs then you have a point. But finding a foreigner in Korea with a PhD is like finding someone drinking coke in a Room Salon. Possible, but not bloody likely. |
I know 2 foreigners w/ PHD's who work at Korean universities while they have it better than the regular foreigners who teach at universities but they don't have it nearly as good as what the Korean professors have.
Anyway this is off topic but from what I have seen most of Korean professors in particular the ones in the humanities departments (even at prestigious schools) are truly over rated academic lightweights who usually get other people to do their research for them. Anyone here ever gotten an email from a Korean English professor? And to think these poeple are getting paid 5 or 6 million a month.
Are foreign teachers at Korean universities underpaid? Maybe.
Are the Korean professors overpaid? Definitely. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee,
You made a good effort at answering the questions.
Thank you. |
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weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Cthulhu wrote: |
Now, if a foreigner with a PhD teaching his major is being treated like dirt in comparison with the Korean profs then you have a point. But finding a foreigner in Korea with a PhD is like finding someone drinking coke in a Room Salon. Possible, but not bloody likely. |
There is a PhD teaching at my school. Gets treaded the same as the B.A. holders too. |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Well, do you really think you foreign instrutors don't get what you deserve? How about 60,000 Korean part-time lecturers? They earn an average of 560,000 won a month. In private universities, they only get a miserable 23,000 won an hour. And most of them do have their PH.Ds.
This thread is a joke, right? |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| kimcheeking wrote: |
RR,
perhaps not too many people are concerned otherwise they would be responding to your mantra. |
Actaully, I am very concerned with this, AND I know several others that are very concerned. However, I am leaving Korea in 3 weeks so am not in the position to stage any conflict....as for my friends, they are transferring positions and to other endeavors....
Real Reality is preaching to the choir, in my case.....
Shoosh,
Ryst
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=5665&highlight=ryst |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| weatherman wrote: |
| Cthulhu wrote: |
Now, if a foreigner with a PhD teaching his major is being treated like dirt in comparison with the Korean profs then you have a point. But finding a foreigner in Korea with a PhD is like finding someone drinking coke in a Room Salon. Possible, but not bloody likely. |
There is a PhD teaching at my school. Gets treaded the same as the B.A. holders too. |
Yes, as my above post....same at my (past) school. The Ph.D holder makes a whopping 20,000 won more a month than the BA holders.
He is one of those very concerned.....as I will be, as I should have my Ph.D in Applied Linguistics when I come back to Korea in a few years.
Shoosh,
Ryst |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:17 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter if you are a Ph.D holder or not.
None of these universities want to pay for professor benefits and salaries.
The bottom line is money and you'll see this in Japan, Taiwan and Korea.
$$$$$$ is the reason. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Ryst Helmut,
Good luck with your move and studies. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
Well, do you really think you foreign instrutors don't get what you deserve? How about 60,000 Korean part-time lecturers? They earn an average of 560,000 won a month. In private universities, they only get a miserable 23,000 won an hour. And most of them do have their PH.Ds.
This thread is a joke, right? |
Most of the Korean professors teaching English can do nothing better than Konglish yet they are getting paid 5 or 6 million. They are vastly overpaid. For that kind of money they should be professionals -they are not.
With the exception of a few most of the Korean professors in the humanities are second or third rate.
Perhaps it is true that many of the foreigners who have PHDs in Korea could not get full time postions in the states but it is also true that most of the Korean professors teaching liberal arts at Korean Universities could not get them either except as part of some kind of affirmative action program.
And if they got their PHD in liberal arts from a Korean University even if its' Yonsei then most likely than 23,000 an hour is all they deserve.
Outside of the sciences Korean universites are pretty much worthless.
And the foreigners who do hold PHDs and who do publish can do what most of the English professors in Korea can't - write in English instead of Konglish.
And one more thing the Korea universities should pay their foreign teachers well , because unlike Korean part time lecturers the foreign teachers are not allowed to work at a second location. |
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