Korean Job Discussion Forums

[seoulunitarian]

This is a take-off from the Mother Theresa thread, since it degenerated (progressed?) into an evolution/atheism/theism debate.

I do not think many of us on this board are strong atheists, but it seems a few of us are somewhere on the atheist continuum. Some claiming to be agnostics, are, it seems, soft theists. So I wanted to create a new thread to discuss the reasons you are where you are on the continuum.

As I mentioned in a few posts on the Mother Theresa thread, I fall into the soft atheist category for the general reason(s) of probability related to the existence of God and the existence of the universe via initial and progressive evolution (from the "big bang" to natural selection).

What are your reasons/ defenses? I am sure as this conversation gets started, I will flesh out my reasons.

Peace

[ED209]

It would help to get some clear definitions since this is where a lot confusion lies and many people start pointless arguments from.

[RACETRAITOR]

I consider myself a strong atheist. However, I don't have an opinion one way or another if there's really an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being that created our universe and lives outside it. What I do think is that every religion in the world's god is wrong. God does not look like a man, and does not sit on clouds throwing thunderbolts, and did not impale himself on Yggdrasill for nine days. God did not have sex with a mortal, giving the world a half-god half human son who turned water to wine/had super strength/saved Andromeda from the kraken. And we laugh at children who believe in Santa Claus.

There are thousands of religions in the world, and millions of gods. At most, only one of them is right.

I won't say that religion kills, because a lot of people supposedly killed by religion probably would've been killed anyway for other convenient reasons. Religion gives easy answers to troubling questions that no one really knows. An atheist might live in fear of death, but a religious person can just say "I'll be reborn in Heaven and everything I ever loved will be waiting to greet me there!" An atheist might wonder why we're all here instead of nothing, while a religious person says "God created us for love!" Hell, if I could believe garbage like that, I'd most likely be a lot happier. But I just can't swallow the Kool-aid.

[mistermasan]

your terms blur any potential discussion. atheists do not believe in god. agnostics literally "don't know" if there is a god. your "soft" and "hard" appellations, while they may feel good, are but distractions.

raised up catholic. the nuns and priests were very good at indoctrinating us as to why every other religion was wrong. but , then, i'd didn't actually believe the BS necessary to be catholic either. checked out a lot of different lies: judiasm, unitarianism, christian, buddhist and they are but roads engineered by someone else that want to lead you somewhere. they are all crap. even the jesuits will acknowledge that there is no hell, no limbo. what is there to be afraid of. we die. game over. all we have is each other, right here, right now.

if there was some kind of atheist missionary program i'd sign up but there isn't so teaching english in asia is just as good.

maybe, some people need religion. i used it for a long time but not anymore.

[RACETRAITOR]

The question I want defined here is what do you mean by God?
-a supernatural human capable of performing miracles
-the creator of the universe
-an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being that exists outside of time and comprehension
-the creator of Earth, who probably didn't have a lot of trouble considering all the cosmic dust floating around all those billions of years ago
-the creator of humanity, who designed man in his own image, despite the fact that all men are originally conceived as female and become male in early fetal development
-the voice that gave the Israelites tactical intelligence that allowed them to vanquish their enemies, at least until their luck ran out
-a guy who lived 2000 years ago who said some wise things, then died, was brought back, and died again
-a man in a red suit who delivers presents once a year

Looking at these, I also have to ask why you would consider worshipping these concepts of gods (except the last one).

[cbclark4]

Yes I think the soft hard thing is just more fluff for the nutters.

Theist - a higher power exists (1, 2 or many)

Atheist - there is no higher power

Agnostic - everyone else

Eggs may be hard or soft or even runny.

Maybe your a runny atheist.

[RACETRAITOR]

I think atheism vs theism is more about whether or not you are a member of a religion. You can believe a god exists and think that it is not worthy of being worshipped.

[cbclark4]

Religion has nothing to do with it. A theist recognizes a higher power.

A person can believe in God without belonging to any particular faith.

A person can doubt the existence of God and still participate in a religion.

A person can belong to a religion and simple not believe any of it.

There are people who simple like the values of a church community and
attend services participate in rituals and hold now belief whatsoever
merely enjoy the community what is wrong with that?

Enjoy your fluff.

[Trioxin_Failure]

This one is interesting, reminds me of atheist vs christian chat on yahoo back when you could create user rooms.

Anyways I know what I believe but i'm curious where the masses might put me on this scale of hard/soft/runny what have you.

So I'm a fatalist, believing that something (you could say "order") keeps entropy in check just long enough so that things can have the time to exist and do whatever it is they do. Now the concept of order itself doesnt strike me as a deity so much as a law of nature opposite of chaos inherent on the cellular level.
Of course this order of fate if you will has been personified, most famously as the three fates of greek/roman mythology.
This brings me to the question, are you a theist if you don't personify these ideas? cause if you are that might bring up an interesting case for the science folk in the room.

[seoulunitarian]

[RACETRAITOR]

[seoulunitarian]

[ernie]

can i be both?

i don't believe that god exists, so i'm an atheist... if someone else wants to, that's fine, just don't call me a bad person or start a fight or try to use god as evidence in an argument...

i don't believe that the existence of god can be proven or disproven, so i'm an agnostic... the question is a matter of faith, not reason, so arguing about these kind of statements is a waste of time...

[seoulunitarian]

[seoulunitarian]