|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Rae
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Why are so many guys so unromantic??? |
 |
|
| princess wrote: |
Wow! It almost gave me chills, so I can understand what this girl must be feeling. I saw a video on a Korean girl's cyworld page. It showed what grand gesture her boyfriend did for her for Christmas. He got candles and lit them and made them into a heart. He had more lit candles leading up to the heart in a cute little path. He had his girlfriend sit inside the heart while he played a love song and he had a Christmas cake for them with candles on it. This girl was wiping tears from her eyes in the video. I'd be crying buckets if a guy did this for me. They were both Korean.
So, my question is this: Why are sooooooo many guys today soooooooo unromantic??? I think we can thank all the die-hard feminists out there who make western girls look bad. You know, those manly acting women who don't even want doors held open for them. They make sweet feminine girls like me look bad. I love it when a Korean guy holds my purse or holds the door for me. I think these die-hard "I can do everything for myself" white girls are making guys treat girls like men. If you want to be equal to a man, expect to get treated like one! Not good for us girly-girl types at all. I actually think some Korean guys have their friends telling them not to do romantic things for a white girl because they won't like it. I even know a western girl who said if a guy did that candle thing, she would freak out and think it was over-the-top. Thanks a lot!
Korean girls tend to like and appreciate this stuff more. I guess I was Korean in a past life. I just don't understand feminists. Girls, let the man be the man. Let him carry your purse, open the door for you, and do things for you. Let him order for you in a restaurant, etc. Feminists are the reason the gender roles are so messed up these days. And when a guy does do something nice for us, girls show him your appreciation. Let the guy feel like a man and make him feel loved. |
You think Western guys are bad, did you see the link I posted about Swedes? The guy that I like (yes I said like, if you're secretly lurking this board, no it's not past-tense!) is hopeless. See link: http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html
I don't understand women that claim to not like attention. I'd love for a guy to do all that. I think the key is timing. I mean if some guy you don't really like does that for you, it's freaky. But if you like him then it's sweet as hell. I think most Western guys just can't take cues and wait too long to act. Next thing they know some hot French guy might fall from the sky and really stir things up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
amen to adventurer
Last edited by Faunaki on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Why are so many guys so unromantic??? |
|
|
| Rae wrote: |
| princess wrote: |
Wow! It almost gave me chills, so I can understand what this girl must be feeling. I saw a video on a Korean girl's cyworld page. It showed what grand gesture her boyfriend did for her for Christmas. He got candles and lit them and made them into a heart. He had more lit candles leading up to the heart in a cute little path. He had his girlfriend sit inside the heart while he played a love song and he had a Christmas cake for them with candles on it. This girl was wiping tears from her eyes in the video. I'd be crying buckets if a guy did this for me. They were both Korean.
So, my question is this: Why are sooooooo many guys today soooooooo unromantic??? I think we can thank all the die-hard feminists out there who make western girls look bad. You know, those manly acting women who don't even want doors held open for them. They make sweet feminine girls like me look bad. I love it when a Korean guy holds my purse or holds the door for me. I think these die-hard "I can do everything for myself" white girls are making guys treat girls like men. If you want to be equal to a man, expect to get treated like one! Not good for us girly-girl types at all. I actually think some Korean guys have their friends telling them not to do romantic things for a white girl because they won't like it. I even know a western girl who said if a guy did that candle thing, she would freak out and think it was over-the-top. Thanks a lot!
Korean girls tend to like and appreciate this stuff more. I guess I was Korean in a past life. I just don't understand feminists. Girls, let the man be the man. Let him carry your purse, open the door for you, and do things for you. Let him order for you in a restaurant, etc. Feminists are the reason the gender roles are so messed up these days. And when a guy does do something nice for us, girls show him your appreciation. Let the guy feel like a man and make him feel loved. |
You think Western guys are bad, did you see the link I posted about Swedes? The guy that I like (yes I said like, if you're secretly lurking this board, no it's not past-tense!) is hopeless. See link: http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html
I don't understand women that claim to not like attention. I'd love for a guy to do all that. I think the key is timing. I mean if some guy you don't really like does that for you, it's freaky. But if you like him then it's sweet as hell. I think most Western guys just can't take cues and wait too long to act. Next thing they know some hot French guy might fall from the sky and really stir things up. |
I guess if you say Western, you mean North American. A French or Italian guy would be Western, too. I agree that they would be more romantic, in general, than their North American counterparts. I am pretty romantic, I think, with using snail mail, roses, can write poems, remember birthdays, write in verse, get candles, but I have seen plenty of North American women and men who didn't really care about that stuff so much as if it's some old-fashioned thing.
I think I can be quite romantic. I try to be romantic in ways that reflect what I like combined with what she likes. Everyone has a different palate, and you have to refine your technique accordingly, but you don't need to have candles or material objects with hearts to be romantic. It could have to do with certain words, touching the person a certain way, and looking at her a certain way...surprising her with certain places you take her to show her you're trying to stimulate her. I think romance is a selfless passion in action. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rae
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rae wrote: |
You think Western guys are bad, did you see the link I posted about Swedes? The guy that I like (yes I said like, if you're secretly lurking this board, no it's not past-tense!) is hopeless. See link: http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html
I don't understand women that claim to not like attention. I'd love for a guy to do all that. I think the key is timing. I mean if some guy you don't really like does that for you, it's freaky. But if you like him then it's sweet as hell. I think most Western guys just can't take cues and wait too long to act. Next thing they know some hot French guy might fall from the sky and really stir things up. |
I guess if you say Western, you mean North American. A French or Italian guy would be Western, too. I agree that they would be more romantic, in general, than their North American counterparts. I am pretty romantic, I think, with using snail mail, roses, can write poems, remember birthdays, write in verse, get candles, but I have seen plenty of North American women and men who didn't really care about that stuff so much as if it's some old-fashioned thing.
I think I can be quite romantic. I try to be romantic in ways that reflect what I like combined with what she likes. Everyone has a different palate, and you have to refine your technique accordingly, but you don't need to have candles or material objects with hearts to be romantic. It could have to do with certain words, touching the person a certain way, and looking at her a certain way...surprising her with certain places you take her to show her you're trying to stimulate her. I think romance is a selfless passion in action. |
Adventurer you're my type of guy 
I agree with you though, I meant American. It all comes down to being expressive. Telling how you feel without the need for compliments. From what I've noticed, the French are just more expressive and American women love the candidness of it all. It doesn't have to be grand, just a bunch of little gestures that make a girl feel like a woman. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Why are so many guys so unromantic??? |
|
|
| princess wrote: |
So, my question is this: Why are sooooooo many guys today soooooooo unromantic??? |
He's just not that into you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rae wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rae wrote: |
You think Western guys are bad, did you see the link I posted about Swedes? The guy that I like (yes I said like, if you're secretly lurking this board, no it's not past-tense!) is hopeless. See link: http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html
I don't understand women that claim to not like attention. I'd love for a guy to do all that. I think the key is timing. I mean if some guy you don't really like does that for you, it's freaky. But if you like him then it's sweet as hell. I think most Western guys just can't take cues and wait too long to act. Next thing they know some hot French guy might fall from the sky and really stir things up. |
I guess if you say Western, you mean North American. A French or Italian guy would be Western, too. I agree that they would be more romantic, in general, than their North American counterparts. I am pretty romantic, I think, with using snail mail, roses, can write poems, remember birthdays, write in verse, get candles, but I have seen plenty of North American women and men who didn't really care about that stuff so much as if it's some old-fashioned thing.
I think I can be quite romantic. I try to be romantic in ways that reflect what I like combined with what she likes. Everyone has a different palate, and you have to refine your technique accordingly, but you don't need to have candles or material objects with hearts to be romantic. It could have to do with certain words, touching the person a certain way, and looking at her a certain way...surprising her with certain places you take her to show her you're trying to stimulate her. I think romance is a selfless passion in action. |
Adventurer you're my type of guy
I agree with you though, I meant American. It all comes down to being expressive. Telling how you feel without the need for compliments. From what I've noticed, the French are just more expressive and American women love the candidness of it all. It doesn't have to be grand, just a bunch of little gestures that make a girl feel like a woman. |
I think every culture is different. I think women and men from certain countries can have what is considered romance overdose to many North American men and women. If you can understand several languages, you will find that many countries have songs with a lot more talk about romance when compared to North American music which is more sexual. That's very telling, don't you think?
Last edited by Adventurer on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think there are a couple of different ideas of romance going about in this thread. The type mentioned in the OP would leave me completely cold. Romance to me, is about a little extra thougtfulness.
I'd much prefer a guy show up with my favorite flower because he saw them and thought of me, than send me a dozen red roses because its what's done in the movies. I don't need my name written across the sky, I'd prefer John Cusack outside my window with a boombox |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
If a women did half the things that men did in the movies taken to be romantic....I'd have her put away in a place with padded walls .Anyone showing up outisde my window playing Peter Gabriel should expect an ambulance .
It seems women suffer from the type of sadism where a person enjoys emotionally crippling another . Or at least are attracted to mentally ill people .
In this day and age staying with a partner requires a cool head and an ability to be cool and rational . I don't want any woman who can't control her emotions ....isn't that the type who ,prone to random and spontaneous flights of fancy , who'd run off with the gardner ? Isn't that the type of person who'd always hold your relationship to crazy expectations ?
A love junkie is like a coke head ...hooked on dopamine.....and that endless chase for dopamine means coke heads become crack addicts and love junkies become full time floozy sluts ....that's just how I see... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rae
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rae wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rae wrote: |
You think Western guys are bad, did you see the link I posted about Swedes? The guy that I like (yes I said like, if you're secretly lurking this board, no it's not past-tense!) is hopeless. See link: http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html
I don't understand women that claim to not like attention. I'd love for a guy to do all that. I think the key is timing. I mean if some guy you don't really like does that for you, it's freaky. But if you like him then it's sweet as hell. I think most Western guys just can't take cues and wait too long to act. Next thing they know some hot French guy might fall from the sky and really stir things up. |
I guess if you say Western, you mean North American. A French or Italian guy would be Western, too. I agree that they would be more romantic, in general, than their North American counterparts. I am pretty romantic, I think, with using snail mail, roses, can write poems, remember birthdays, write in verse, get candles, but I have seen plenty of North American women and men who didn't really care about that stuff so much as if it's some old-fashioned thing.
I think I can be quite romantic. I try to be romantic in ways that reflect what I like combined with what she likes. Everyone has a different palate, and you have to refine your technique accordingly, but you don't need to have candles or material objects with hearts to be romantic. It could have to do with certain words, touching the person a certain way, and looking at her a certain way...surprising her with certain places you take her to show her you're trying to stimulate her. I think romance is a selfless passion in action. |
Adventurer you're my type of guy
I agree with you though, I meant American. It all comes down to being expressive. Telling how you feel without the need for compliments. From what I've noticed, the French are just more expressive and American women love the candidness of it all. It doesn't have to be grand, just a bunch of little gestures that make a girl feel like a woman. |
I think every culture is different. I think women and men from certain countries can have what is considered romance overdose to many North American men and women. If you can understand several languages, you will find that many countries have songs with a lot more talk about romance when compared to North American music which is more sexual. That's very telling, don't you think? |
I totally agree. The pull of Hollywood and commercialism is overwhelming. It wouldn't be such a bad thing if there is tradition that help balance it out. I can only speak for America - but for such a young country, we fare pretty well regardless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Trioxin_Failure
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: on hooters |
|
|
| princess wrote: |
| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
Blah blah blah. Princess, why don't you spent more time dating rather than *beep* about men of all sorts of the forums? You're never going to find Mr. Romantic here!
(And for the record, I would find the candles romantic, but whatever. Romantic is fighting with your parents when they're pissed that you're dating a white girl until they finally agree to meet her.) |
Hey, I offerred to read princess Sonnet 47 over a strawberry smoothie at HOoters-I'm beginning to think princess is a fat ass who loves sugary drinks |
Well, Hooters is NOT romantic. Now that would be the perfect place for you to take a brutish girl. How many Korean girls do you know who would want a guy to take her to Hooters? I never understood western girls back home who allowed their husbands to take them to Hooters with their kids. Like my friend back home who let a guy take her on a date to a strip club. What was she thinking? That is just horrendous!!! |
Hooters is a severely toned down family atmosphere. Yes back in the dark ages of the 1980's conservative christians all but crapped themselves at the presence of waitresses in short shorts and t-shirts (lacking cleavage mind you) showing the same amount of breasts as any other woman wearing a t-shirt. Anyways after explaining about hooters upon their arrival in Korea (as I had often gone there to have a good meal for a fair price back in university) to my korean girlfriend she asked to be taken there for her birthday. It was the apgujeong one in case you wondered, this was before gangnam. But anyways she had a good time and actually laughed at the lack of hooters being displayed by the waitresses (she's well endowed for a local and is aware of it). Also her best friend came and brought her boyfriend of 12 years and 3 koreans and one foreigner had an enjoyable time, ate until we almost exploded and drank a fair amount for a bit over 100,000 won.
I guess it's not so much the feminists i'm afraid of dating as it is the conservative christians  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: on hooters |
|
|
| Trioxin_Failure wrote: |
| princess wrote: |
| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
Blah blah blah. Princess, why don't you spent more time dating rather than *beep* about men of all sorts of the forums? You're never going to find Mr. Romantic here!
(And for the record, I would find the candles romantic, but whatever. Romantic is fighting with your parents when they're pissed that you're dating a white girl until they finally agree to meet her.) |
Hey, I offerred to read princess Sonnet 47 over a strawberry smoothie at HOoters-I'm beginning to think princess is a fat ass who loves sugary drinks |
Well, Hooters is NOT romantic. Now that would be the perfect place for you to take a brutish girl. How many Korean girls do you know who would want a guy to take her to Hooters? I never understood western girls back home who allowed their husbands to take them to Hooters with their kids. Like my friend back home who let a guy take her on a date to a strip club. What was she thinking? That is just horrendous!!! |
Hooters is a severely toned down family atmosphere. Yes back in the dark ages of the 1980's conservative christians all but crapped themselves at the presence of waitresses in short shorts and t-shirts (lacking cleavage mind you) showing the same amount of *beep* as any other woman wearing a t-shirt. Anyways after explaining about hooters upon their arrival in Korea (as I had often gone there to have a good meal for a fair price back in university) to my korean girlfriend she asked to be taken there for her birthday. It was the apgujeong one in case you wondered, this was before gangnam. But anyways she had a good time and actually laughed at the lack of hooters being displayed by the waitresses (she's well endowed for a local and is aware of it). Also her best friend came and brought her boyfriend of 12 years and 3 koreans and one foreigner had an enjoyable time, ate until we almost exploded and drank a fair amount for a bit over 100,000 won.
I guess it's not so much the feminists i'm afraid of dating as it is the conservative christians |
I think Princess has this romantic notion of South Korea. Let us not forget, though South Korea is an advanced country by economic standards and is a democracy, which are all good things, women are often treated terribly over here. Women were expected to basically be virgins in the 1980s. I am sure you know that. Women are often expected to take their man sleeping with prostitutes. Korea has its fair share of problems. I have seen some married women trying to pick up single foreign guys; I am not kidding. Granted, I do like that Korean females seem to be more appreciative of romantic, passionate Western males than Western females in my experience. If a Western male is a very attentive, nice guy, he may be better off with a local Korean girl if he can understand the language enough. I can't speak the language enough for that. That said, I appreciate good women from many countries.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Trioxin_Failure
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: on hooters |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Trioxin_Failure wrote: |
| princess wrote: |
| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
Blah blah blah. Princess, why don't you spent more time dating rather than *beep* about men of all sorts of the forums? You're never going to find Mr. Romantic here!
(And for the record, I would find the candles romantic, but whatever. Romantic is fighting with your parents when they're pissed that you're dating a white girl until they finally agree to meet her.) |
Hey, I offerred to read princess Sonnet 47 over a strawberry smoothie at HOoters-I'm beginning to think princess is a fat ass who loves sugary drinks |
Well, Hooters is NOT romantic. Now that would be the perfect place for you to take a brutish girl. How many Korean girls do you know who would want a guy to take her to Hooters? I never understood western girls back home who allowed their husbands to take them to Hooters with their kids. Like my friend back home who let a guy take her on a date to a strip club. What was she thinking? That is just horrendous!!! |
Hooters is a severely toned down family atmosphere. Yes back in the dark ages of the 1980's conservative christians all but crapped themselves at the presence of waitresses in short shorts and t-shirts (lacking cleavage mind you) showing the same amount of *beep* as any other woman wearing a t-shirt. Anyways after explaining about hooters upon their arrival in Korea (as I had often gone there to have a good meal for a fair price back in university) to my korean girlfriend she asked to be taken there for her birthday. It was the apgujeong one in case you wondered, this was before gangnam. But anyways she had a good time and actually laughed at the lack of hooters being displayed by the waitresses (she's well endowed for a local and is aware of it). Also her best friend came and brought her boyfriend of 12 years and 3 koreans and one foreigner had an enjoyable time, ate until we almost exploded and drank a fair amount for a bit over 100,000 won.
I guess it's not so much the feminists i'm afraid of dating as it is the conservative christians |
I think Princess has this romantic notion of South Korea. Let us not forget, though South Korea is an advanced country by economic standards and is a democracy, which are all good things, women are often treated terribly over here. Women were expected to basically be virgins in the 1980s. I am sure you know that. Women are often expected to take their man sleeping with prostitutes. Korea has its fair share of problems. I have seen some married women trying to pick up single foreign guys; I am not kidding. Granted, I do like that Korean females seem to be more appreciative of romantic, passionate Western males than Western females in my experience. If a Western male is a very attentive, nice guy, he may be better off with a local Korean girl if he can understand the language enough. I can't speak the language enough for that. That said, I appreciate good women from many countries.... |
I can see your point, I just have no idea why you decided to quote me before you made it. I was more concerned with Princess' horror at the thought of going to hooters (which I do wonder if she has ever been to one) and brought up a situation where a Korean girl actually opted to go to this place. Also, since Korea long ago blatantly cloned hooters with their "Better than Beer" franchise(food there sux tho), I think most local people have been desensitized. As you stated this is the type of soceity where men are normally "playboys" so perhaps the local view of romanticism is different.
Oh and about the married woman thing, I had a Korean woman run up to me on the street, grab me, and in broken english proceed to tell me I was her type and very handsome, while all the while big angry Korean man behind her was approaching and then used his broken english to point and say "This my wife" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: Re: on hooters |
|
|
| Trioxin_Failure wrote: |
I can see your point, I just have no idea why you decided to quote me before you made it. I was more concerned with Princess' horror at the thought of going to hooters (which I do wonder if she has ever been to one) and brought up a situation where a Korean girl actually opted to go to this place. Also, since Korea long ago blatantly cloned hooters with their "Better than Beer" franchise(food there sux tho), I think most local people have been desensitized. As you stated this is the type of soceity where men are normally "playboys" so perhaps the local view of romanticism is different.
Oh and about the married woman thing, I had a Korean woman run up to me on the street, grab me, and in broken english proceed to tell me I was her type and very handsome, while all the while big angry Korean man behind her was approaching and then used his broken english to point and say "This my wife" |
Sorry about that, but as far as hooters, well Korea has its room salons.
It's true some Western women take their men to places like that, but Westerners are open about sexuality in different ways than Koreas would be my take on that.
As far as romance, Korean men and women are encouraged to be extremely romantic, and the commercial industry encourages that with his and her cell phone, his and her clothing and stuff like that. So if someone said romance is generally encouraged in Korean society more than in North America, it would be hard to disagree. If someone said that being very attentive to your girl or guy is far more acceptable in South Korean society, I would definitely say so.
In many cases, a Western woman would run to the hills by some of the intense displays of Korean men, Mediterranean men, and Latin men. Their women would often expect that and the Western women in some cases might cringe at such attention. You have to consider cultures where there is less physical space when speaking with each other don't have so many boundaries in that area. Just a thought.... Anyone disagree or have something to add based on their cultural experiences? I know when I dealt with women of Mediterranean extraction they often loved tons of physical affection, but that didn't apply as much to North American girls. Cultures that have people often using their hands when talking would probably have them be more physical. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RobWest
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Location: Yeongwol-gu
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Getting on the train to Seoul last weekend- I had just climbed the steps into the car. Behind, I heard the solid clacks of female boots on the platform.
I had no idea who was behind me as all I had thought about was the three hour journey ahead and finding my seat on the correct car.
There was a quite a bit of snow and water around the platform, and the steps, from the accumulating snow.
Without thinking, I instinctively turned and offered my hand to what proved to be a very attractive and well-dressed young, Korean woman. My guess is she was in her mid to late twenties. I'm forty five.
The timing couldn't have been better. She was about to reach for the misplaced hand rail when she noticed my proffered maul and accepted it instead. Nice, firm grip she had, too.
I'd like to conclude with a "they lived happily forever" style ending, but I'm satisfied with the warm smile and "Thank you." in English I was rewarded with.
Would a similar woman's reaction have been the same back home? I doubt it. More likely I'd have been waved off and made to feel I was molesting. Or been thrown some sneering epithet. Not to mention the near impossibility of even considering a pleasant 3 hour train ride in the states.
My age and upbringing conditioned my reaction to her approach. And, thankfully, so did hers, here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
