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Someone told me RULES ARE CHANGING on HOGWON HOUSING???
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't know what to think; so many different answers. But one thing I do know is this: housing is required by immigration law. If a business wants to sponsor a foreigner to work in korea, that business must sign a sponsor form in order to have the visa issued. This form states that the business, be it a hokwon, the 3D jobs, etc. must provide housing, return airfare and are responsible for all cost and maintenance as well as any fines that the foreigner might receive for violating korean law. Immigration always asks for the sponsor form from the business who is seeking a visa.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

Joe Thanks wrote:
Gord wrote:

Why? Most people I know who have been here past their first contract all have their own housnig anyway.



More of Gord's fantasy land.


Joe


Zuh? Of the peer group I regularly associate with, only two of them live in supplied housing. One of them is in his second year, and the other is in his first year. The other six all have their own housing.

Ergo the statement "most people I know".
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kimcheeking
Guest




PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to agree with Gord, again (unbelievable twice in 2 days). Most people I associate with have thier own housing.
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Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People with their own housing usually get an allowance from their sponser, or have enough money up front to paye for the key money. Key money is no small amount either. Anyone who comes over here for the first time and gets his own home without the help of the sponser sure got balls or rocks in his or her head.
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:26 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

I have never met a teacher who lives in anything buy supplied housing. I would rather live in a free rathole than a paid better apartment. Most Korean apartments are bug infested rat holes.

sakamuras, who the hell are you? A troll who never has anything useful to say. How did so many ESL teachers do you wrong? Did some white guy steal your g/f or something? Geez man, lighten up.
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crazylemongirl



Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I lucked out on my accomdation as I'm currently living in a school leased office tell. Coming back next year I would love to live in one of these again so would go for the housing allowance again.

CLG
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Joe Thanks



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Dudleyville

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
Joe Thanks wrote:
Gord wrote:

Why? Most people I know who have been here past their first contract all have their own housnig anyway.



More of Gord's fantasy land.


Joe


Zuh? Of the peer group I regularly associate with, only two of them live in supplied housing. One of them is in his second year, and the other is in his first year. The other six all have their own housing.

Ergo the statement "most people I know".




More of Gord's small circle "universe" whatever posing as fact.

Fact; most cna't et their own housing.

Race money - er Key Money is a big factor if you do find someone who WILL rent to a foreinger.

Try finding a place to rent in Pyeongtaek (for example) - without a Korean garuntor or wife, or racist key money deposit.

I rest my case. More disinformation from gord shot down.

Joe
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

Joe Thanks wrote:
Try finding a place to rent in Pyeongtaek (for example) - without a Korean garuntor or wife, or racist key money deposit.

Um, you do know that seemingly astronomical key-money deposits are a part of the whole housing set up in Korea and not just inflicted upon unsuspecting foreigners, don't you? It's called ���� (cheon-seh).

Quote:
I rest my case. More disinformation from gord shot down.

Well I for one am glad you're not MY lawyer (or for that matter my English teacher- the word you're searching for is guarantor).
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sakamuras



Joined: 21 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

What a great attitude...If you have absolutely no desire to work hard and improve your standard of living, why do you complain in the first place?Geez...

Ilsanman wrote:
I would rather live in a free rathole than a paid better apartment.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

Joe Thanks wrote:
Fact; most cna't et their own housing.


Please stop confusing your opinion as fact.

As for people not being able to get their own housing, that's usually a first year thing. Yes, some people will use supplied housing in the second year. Many don't. Do I know the percentage as an overall? no I do not. I simply expressed my observation and cited it as an observation only. Others now have also expressed the same observation. After working for a year in Korea it's pretty easy to have a nice sizeable bank account that can easily handle a token 5 million or 10 million won deposit.

Quote:
Race money - er Key Money is a big factor if you do find someone who WILL rent to a foreinger.


I've lived in three places now, and I've talked to a few more about moving into them. Not one has anyone ever said "we won't rent to you" or magically the rent has gone up between what a sign at the realtor office said and when I show in person.

Sure, key money can be a problem to some people if they are new to Korea or want to live in a family sized skyrise apartment where the key deposit money starts at 50 million for most of the cheap places (and can easily exceed 100 in the larger, new places). I live in an officetel that cost me 5 million. Others usually live in a villa type setting and often pay no deposit.

Nor can I think of any examples where anyone has ever said that to any of my friends. Though it happened in a taxi a couple times over the last couple years.

Quote:
Try finding a place to rent in Pyeongtaek (for example) - without a Korean garuntor or wife, or racist key money deposit.


Racist? Everyone pays a key deposit when you want to move into an officetel or large apartment. Walk down to a realtor storefront and look at the advertisements in the window. It lists the key money right there.

Quote:
I rest my case. More disinformation from gord shot down.


What case? What disinformation have I supplied? You incorrectly said that every apartment has a supersized key deposit and that most people won't rent to foreigners, so therefore I must be wrong. That's not a case at all. That's just you not being happy that someone lives in better housing than you.
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Mankind



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ilsanman wrote:
Quote:
I would rather live in a free rathole than a paid better apartment.


Than you're an idiot. You take 5 million key money from your employer (some offer 10) and 300,000 a month and get a better place than they are giving you 'for free'. Get together with a friend and rent one big place by pooling your money.

Mankind writes:
Quote:
I'll take my 3 bedroom house, for the extra 300,000 a month I pay.


HAND Smile

p.s. I always wanted to quote myself.[/quote]
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Sloth



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Here

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gone and rented my own place. I saved up my cash and paid the key money by myself without the help of my job. They give me a housing allowance and I am happy with the situation.

Why?

Freedom.

This way I don't ever have to worry about deadbeat roommates, bosses feeling like they can enter my apartment at their convenience, or everybody's favorite game of "musical apartments" (when the music stops gather your things and move into your new home).

I had to live with school housing for a few years but now, since I have my own pad, working in Korea is somewhat (and I use the word loosely) similar to working in Canada. I go to work and I go home. The two places are totally seperate.

There are advantages to both school housing and your own so I won't knock either of them.
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Tiberious aka Sparkles



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am by no means a completely-seasoned veteran, having been here less than 4 years, and here's my first-hand experience:

My third year, I paid for my own place in Seoul, and moved to Bundang 6 months later, after I had saved enough to get a bigger place (and baby was on the way; the neighborhood we lived in at the time was horrible for raising a little one, though some might assert that Korea is horrible for raising a child. Whatever.).

Weol Sae, or paying a slightly lower key deposit and also monthly rent is what I did, and it wasn't astronomically expensive. The 13 pyeong we had in Seoul cost 5 million, and the two-bedroom villa we now live in (next to the mountain; did I mention that before?) cost 10, with 450,000 won, monthly. My wife tells me to clam up whenever I make the observation that perhaps someone was murdered in our home, and that's why it was such a good deal. But I believe anyone can find a good place with a reasonably low key deposit, as long as you look in the right neighborhood -- even in Kangnam.

AND, there are racist agents out there. I tried getting an apartment in Bundang first, and the agent we visited asked my wife if I was going to be living there, and when she told him that was the plan, he said they didn't rent to foreigners. My wife called him a shipbal nom and stormed out. I was set to clean his clock, but somehow managed to control my rage. Still to this day, I get angry thinking about it and wonder if I might get away with strolling over to his office (I still have the address) and bringing the hurt down (I'm not a big guy, but this dude looked like a starving chicken).

So, my advice is: if you have 5-10 million, do yourself a favor and get your own place. You'll probably find something a lot nicer than the sh*tbox your typical hagwon will provide.

Sparkles*_*
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Joe Thanks



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Dudleyville

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mankind wrote:


Than you're an idiot. You take 5 million key money from your employer (some offer 10) and 300,000 a month and get a better place than they are giving you 'for free'. Get together with a friend and rent one big place by pooling your money.
]


How realistic. Rolling Eyes

Most employers (about 90% I'd wager) don't do this. Congrats that you found one but just because you did - that does not mean most will.

Joe
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

sakamuras wrote:
even if they have to pay rent, i believe most ESL instructors would still teach...as it would STILL be better than the McJobs they are only qualfied for back in their homelands. also, i would think this move would actually weed out the pleasure-seeking underqualified free-loaders who aren't qualified to teach in korea anyway.

Ilsanman wrote:
If they try to do that, their ESL market will fall flat on its face.


I think you are both partly right, this would definitely cut down on the "new" teachers coming to Korea. People who already have their own housing would still be here. In reality, I know this isn't going to happen, because the free housing is a perk offered to attract people to Korea. Without it, not many people would bother.

This would mean hagwans would have to pay the price for experienced teachers who would be willing to come, and then treat them professionally.
(yeah, like that's ever going to happen) It's cheaper and easier for hagwans to offer the housing, and then hire a newbie who is easily pushed around and exploitable.

Just my 2 centavos
Saludos
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