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ceesgetdegrees
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hierophant wrote: |
| ceesgetdegrees wrote: |
Yes the Chin's and the Sew hoy's. Most young people leave dunner's not just asian students. Theres sfa going on down there job wise which is a pity because it turly is a beautiful city. Yeah, there's a lot of bogans but as i stated in an earlier post, it's possible for asians to find there niche, Peter Chin has been the friggen mayor of dunners for the last four years and before him, sukhi turner an indian immigrant, this , in the deep south of racist old NZ, what a load of codswollop. |
(I edited my original post while you were writing your reply)
Two mayors of 'ethnic' ancestry does not a cosmopolitan city make. It's the day-in-day-out racism of the city that counts:
The skinheads and bogans hanging around outside McDonalds throwing bottles and intimidating foreign students.
The skanks in Holdens pulling up and yelling 'F**k off Gook!' to Asians walking home along Colombo street.
The racial cliques at Otago Boys' High School (where I went). Dunedin is racist, just accept it.
You're a patriotic guy ceesgetdegrees, but don't let that cloud your judgment. |
Hey, i'm native, believe me, i've experienced all that you describe as racism, and a lot lot more. That said, dunedin is a fantastic little city and i feel fortunate having grown up there after having seen what kids over here have to put up with. I suffered from a lot of racial abuse every day in my first couple of years at high school, there were constant arguments, fist fights, suspensions, up until the 5th form when people started to grow up a bit. Of course there are clicks at high school, thats what high school is all about, by the time you have finished high school though, the friends you made during that time are your friends for life. At that point, who gives a toss if some bogan yells nigger or gook at you, i didn't, you know who your friends are and what they think of you and that's all that matters.
And i for one never claimed dunners to be "cosmopolitain", thats never gonna happen. |
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The Hierophant
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ceesgetdegrees wrote: |
At that point, who gives a toss if some bogan yells *beep* or gook at you, i didn't, you know who your friends are and what they think of you and that's all that matters.
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Well, yes, it's up to the individual to deal with incidents appropriately. But the racism is still there, in fact it permeates the entire culture of the city. That's my point.
Even nationalism is a problem. One of my High School friends emigrated from Los Angeles. Every day he copped flak for being a 'Yank', and was drilled on the perceived evils of 'the Americans'. Now you could say he just had to harden up and take it, which he did, quite admirably. But having to face that sort of crap day after day will eventually lead to deep-seated resentment, and that's what NZ is starting to see from it's immigrant communities: a sense of being excluded, misled and cheated. And I think this feeling is well justified. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dundin is not racist. It's a city. Korea is not racist. It's a country.
I think the situation in Dunedin sum's up NZ and many other western countries quite well.
The majority of New Zealanders are willing to give anyone a go, so you do get Indian or Chinese mayors in NZ's 5th biggest city for example. The current mayor of Gisborne is also of Chinese descent, and New Zealand also had the first transgender MP. I think we would all agree that we won't see non-Korean mayors in Korea anytime soon.
A minority of New Zealanders are racist thugs who should be shipped out to a desolate island somewhere and left to eat each other. They often act this way because "those fucking gooks are going to take over our country!" etc. I think we would all agree that we won't see this kind of thuggishness in Korea any time soon. |
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The Hierophant
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
A minority of New Zealanders are racist thugs who should be shipped out to a desolate island somewhere and left to eat each other. |
Absolutely. If we could snap our fingers and make all of the low-life, racist thugs of NZ (and the world) disappear I'm sure we would. The problem is that the image of NZ as portrayed to the world by the NZIS and the actual reality are in such stark contrast that it borders on willful deception.
Yes, potential immigrants should research their new country as thoroughly as possible, but our government shouldn't deceive them either simply to get them through the door and into the tax pool. |
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Rapacious Mr. Batstove
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Central Areola
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hierophant wrote: |
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
A minority of New Zealanders are racist thugs who should be shipped out to a desolate island somewhere and left to eat each other. |
Absolutely. If we could snap our fingers and make all of the low-life, racist thugs of NZ (and the world) disappear I'm sure we would. The problem is that the image of NZ as portrayed to the world by the NZIS and the actual reality are in such stark contrast that it borders on willful deception.
Yes, potential immigrants should research their new country as thoroughly as possible, but our government shouldn't deceive them either simply to get them through the door and into the tax pool. |
Oh for sure. If reality was the case, Once Were Warriors would be the promotional video, not a 100% Pure NZ montage of trees and mountain |
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The Hierophant
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rapacious Mr. Batstove wrote: |
Oh for sure. If reality was the case, Once Were Warriors would be the promotional video, not a 100% Pure NZ montage of trees and mountain |
I agree, and I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry  |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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WHITES in general anglo saxon british colonists seem to think they are more superior to other races, and this is what sparked it all...
when other immigrants arrived after them which they BEGGED FOR!
the new settlers got stares, and called names..
what a nice welcome!
so the new immigrants segregated themselves from their new unwanting neighbours! also once the new immigrants heard about what happened to the Maori, the Abo's, and the Native Americans.. they kind of went! WOW
lets stay out of their way!!
and that same mentality is being passed onto other nationals who have been their longer than the lastest ones who arrive.. so they do what was done to them! so on and so on..
"why cant we all just get a long"! |
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Rapacious Mr. Batstove
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Central Areola
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
WHITES in general anglo saxon british colonists seem to think they are more superior to other races, and this is what sparked it all...
when other immigrants arrived after them which they BEGGED FOR!
the new settlers got stares, and called names..
what a nice welcome!
so the new immigrants segregated themselves from their new unwanting neighbours! also once the new immigrants heard about what happened to the Maori, the Abo's, and the Native Americans.. they kind of went! WOW
lets stay out of their way!!
and that same mentality is being passed onto other nationals who have been their longer than the lastest ones who arrive.. so they do what was done to them! so on and so on..
"why cant we all just get a long"! |
Exactly. Some people seem to think NZ's and Aussie's racism towards Asians is a new thing. As colonial countries, from the early days it was seen as important to maintain the European and 'white' character of the race, the 'small town' racism as demonstrated in the OP's video is evidence of a similar ideology.
I don't believe that New Zealand is becoming 'more' racist, in fact I think the opposite applies.
I think it's important to note that New Zealand and Australia are becoming more accepting towards Asian immigrants. Chinese New Zealanders gained the right of naturalisation in 1952 and the government apologised for the Chinese head tax. Australia's 'white policy' was dumped in the 1970's - small, yet progressive steps.
Of course racism still exists in Australasia, and it makes living in some places a miserable experience for some people. I don't believe that racism exists on the same level it once did though and I believe attitudes are improving.
As long as there is ignorance, there will be racism, everywhere.
I just don't think the problem is worsening. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Racism in NZ. |
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"Abo's" is not PC. Indigenous Australians is the correct terminology.
Even when I visited NZ years ago, there was an small undercurrent of both racism & violence, & I was warned not to go walking around any dark streets alone at night. I never encountered any problems in broad daylight, & wouldn't hesitate to go back. It surely is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Racism in NZ. |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
"Abo's" is not PC. Indigenous Australians is the correct terminology.
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I know its not PC.. but I grew up in OZ.. and the correct term we use is
aboriginals.. and in australia being the most used slang nation on the face of the planet.. we call them ABO'S for short..
lebonese - lebs
australians = Aussies!, skips,
new zealanders = kiwis, (sheep shaggers) hahahha
nothing wrong with calling the Aboriginals , Abos.. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Del
Last edited by Cheonmunka on Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Bradley wrote: |
I've been back in New Zealand for a while now after five years in Korea, and, to be quite honest, I would never recommend this country, even for a vacation, to any Asian person. Outside of perhaps Wellington (and even there, things have deteriorated), the amount of racism - and I mean aggressive acts, not rude stares - is rampant. I teach at a private language school here with a largely Asian student population, and the majority of my students have experienced abuse simply for looking different: objects thrown at them from passing cars (very common here), being told to "f... off" in the streets all the time (even in the daytime), being pursued by carloads of "bogans" (aka rednecks)...just really nasty stuff.
What I'd forgotten about this country while I was in Korea is how macho and violent it basically is. We're talking about a lot of uneducated morons with the most unbelievably narrow minds, an out-of-control boy racer culture here that the government refuses to clamp down on, a rugby culture that is just as bad and incredibly aggressive, and an horrific amount of drug and alcohol-fuelled violence. Home invasions are a daily occurrence everywhere here, but when was the last time you heard of that happening in Korea? Or a grandmother being raped in her own home? That's NZ. It's a fantastic country to live in, though, if you're a piece of white trash: the culture is crude and the laws are a joke. Take your worst Western bar in Seoul or Busan, and that's essentially a microcosm of NZ society, especially in any city here on a Friday or Saturday night.
Given all of the above, what chance does a naive Asian have in this society? And yet some of the posters here have criticised them for not assimilating! Assimilate into what?
Korea is far from perfect, but in five years there, I personally never experienced any racism that I was aware of. Quite the opposite, in fact: people went out of their way to be nice to me. Ironically, the only aggressive behaviour I experienced was from fellow Westerners! I also took for granted the fact that I could leave a bar after midnight without being mugged; here, you'd be insane to do that - especially if you were alone and Asian.
If it weren't for a few complications here, I'd be back in Korea tomorrow. |
There's a lot of truth in this but its a bit exaggerated as well, or perhaps Auckland is a lot different from the rest of the country. In my high school class there were chinese, indians, 1 korean, 1 sri lankan and several polynesian kids and though there was a lot of stupid teasing it was not racially based or if it was it was not serious. A lot of white kiwi kids have asian friends and are tolerant. Most white kids I knew were far more worried about getting beaten up by polynesian kids for no reason.
I agree that its a violent culture in general compared to Korea but its directed everywhere not just against asians. In Auckland, a city of a million there were less than 100 official skinheads as far as I recall. The real racists are a very small number and the majority of NZers don't agree with them. I would say the level of racism is about the same as in England or the US from what I've seen in the news racial attacks still persist there and are often more serious than those in NZ.
In the end though the immigrants may just have to 'adapt to' NZ's violent culture and gang together and fight back against those kind of idiots. Part of it is being smart and avoiding going out at night in certain areas (something Koreans would obviously not be used to). Walking down Queen st on a weekend night there's a very heavy atmosphere- boy racers in cars trying to stare down everybody. Something I don't miss in Korea at all.
Anyway I think its a bit extreme to say that no asian should vacation in NZ at all. I know several Koreans who spent several months in NZ and really enjoyed themselves and never encountered any serious racism. Don't let the 1 or 2% ruin our country's image completely!
I don't know if its fair to say that the laws are a joke, if you watched the video those thugs were punished with jail time. The immigrants have to make sure they report every incident to the police and get as invloved with politics as they can. I know I'll definitely be doing my best to get invloved with combating racism when I get back.
edit- and for all our racism, according to wiki:
"People identifying with Asian ethnic groups account for 9.2% of the population, increasing from 6.6% in the 2001 census"
so not everyone's getting put off coming here. The more the merrier I say, our economy needs more hard-working asians! |
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nzerinkorea
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Location: Yongin
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys, I just want to say a few things. Firstly, at least our(NZ media) reports on the racial abuses that occur and puts a negative on it, not like the South Korean media who focus their eyes on the .001% western population who drink too much, smoke drugs or score Korean women etc.
Secondly, in NZ we have institutions in place to protect againt racial attacks or discrimination. We have at least 2 asian MPs, we have a special asian police unit. What more do you want? When I was in Korea, I heard of many violent attacks on foreign teachers, none made the front page of any Korean newspapers. At least we know we have a problem and we act on it.
In NZ, the Asian population is about 240,000 or 1 in 15 people. In some ways I can see why NZers are worried. Seriously, when I'm at home I do feel we are swamped with asians. Soon the Asian population will take over the Maori population.
Anyway I hope your time improves in NZ.
Cheers |
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Rapacious Mr. Batstove
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Central Areola
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| nzerinkorea wrote: |
Soon the Asian population will take over the Maori population.
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Basically I like what you have to say, except for the above.
I read somewhere that by the year 2020, 1 in 3 New Zealanders will claim some Maori decent, the Asian population although swelling won't touch Maori numbers for a long time yet.
Projected figures have numbers of the Asian population growing at a faster rate than Maori but the figures won't match up for at least another 15-20 years.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/A052992C-A2C6-4DD1-97D5-74908FE3B3CA/0/Chapter8.pdf |
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southern gal
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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ok sure nz can be racist but what country isn't these days?
why not give it a rest and just leave the kiwis alone...
nobody's perfect after all |
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