|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Some Foreigners Bash Korea Unfairly - Korea Times Article |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Some Foreigners Bash Korea Unjustly, Unfairly
By David Thiessen
Contributing Writer
I have been involved with Korea and Koreans for a very long time. And over the years I have noticed that many people make criticizing Korea a national sport with the majority of the comments unfair, unjust and untrue.
It seems that when foreigners enter these shores all the lessons of their youth seem to take flight and they return to their unschooled attitudes and opinions, lambaste everything there is about Korea, though much of what they criticize takes place in the Western world as well.
Also, I find that foreigners seem to think that they are perfect or superior to the East which, to them, gives them the right to treat Koreans in an insulting manner while expecting to be treated like kings and queens in return.
It is not difficult to find examples of this, as one only needs to frequent the numerous Western bars and other hangouts or peruse the many foreigner Web sites that exist to provide the Westerner a place to go and meet others.
It seems that anonymity breeds false bravado as I have read and challenged many such negative comments from those posters who would not say such things if their identities were known.
No country is perfect, no one is perfect and though there is room for constructive criticism, humiliating Koreans in public is not one aspect of that part of life.
I find that the Westerner feels that the West is the best despite its own corruption, its own racism and its own slanting of policy to gain benefits for its corporations.
The last people to speak about how bad the Koreans are, are those from Western countries as their track record is as bad, if not worse, than those who were born and reside in the East. This does not mean we can only sit there and kiss butt ― no, for that is as wrong as unjustified and unwarranted criticism.
Foreigners seem to forget that bad treatment garners bad treatment thus much of the negative response they get from Koreans is a result of previous foreigners who have come before and have taken advantage of what generosity they were granted during their tenure here and from the direct actions from each foreigner, who is here now, toward their Korean employers, co-workers and Korea itself.
Foreigners only have themselves to blame for much of what transpires during their sojourn in this country, we are not blameless and the fault does not lie with the Korean nation only.
Take a hard look at your own actions, look at your attitude and behavior through an outsider's eye and see if you are happy with what you see.
I know I am not perfect here and make my share of mistakes and I say this out of experience, as I have had to adjust as well.
It helps to remember some scripture when faced with the easy task of criticizing others: ``ye who are without sin, cast the first stone'' and ``remove the beam from your own eye first so you can see clearly to remove the toothpick from your neighbor's eye'' (slight paraphrase)
It is not right to publicly embarrass or humiliate a nation through forums that are accessed by the population, many of whom are innocent of the charges laid. Such actions only make life more difficult for foreigners and not easier.
Koreans have the right to determine the rules for their own country and foreigners need to learn to deal with problems the right way and draw the officials attention to difficulties through the proper methods and a public forum is not such an avenue |
http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2.../177_17342.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bobbyhanlon
Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Location: 서울
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
despite his high and mighty tone, i agree..
i lived in korea for just over 3 years and while it is far from perfect, it isn't a bad place either and has many good aspects that the average burger-munching, itaewon-loving english teacher is totally ignorant of.
and he's right that the west isn't necessarily better. since i got back home there have been countless times when i thought to myself 'in korea, x doesn't happen/y is better run/z is much quicker', etc.
also the ignorance of the korean population about the west is definitely mirrored by western ignorance about east asia. basically what i'm saying is that the white guy you run into on the subway who wants to talk to you just so he can tell you how crappy and stupid korea is is just the same as the ajosshi who shouts 'yankee go home!', namely, an ignorant git. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rapacious Mr. Batstove
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Central Areola
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Koreans have the right to determine the rules for their own country and foreigners need to learn to deal with problems the right way and draw the officials attention to difficulties through the proper methods and a public forum is not such an avenue |
Like the Korean Police Website!
http://www.smpa.go.kr/smpa2007/bbs/board/listMain.asp?code=for_eng&page=&s=&c=&sort=&sk=
Venting is also an illegal activity in Korea. Anyone caught venting will be rigged to a blood pressure monitor, a blood sample will be taken you will most probably be deported. You have been warned.
Please report venting to the appropriate officials. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Any teacher who runs is a bad teacher.
Any teacher who stands still is well disciplined bad teacher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperFly wrote: |
Any teacher who runs is a bad teacher.
Any teacher who stands still is well disciplined bad teacher. |
dance, good clown, dance! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm not saying I disagree with his article; i agree with much of it. But it's a pathetic puff piece with no real research or insight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good God is this news?
Too many Korea Times Reports are complaining about things! Now that is news...if it were Saturday Night Live. What a joke!
Not one example of a complaint. Not one example of how the free expression of opinion is dangerous. What percentage of people are complaining? What percentage of talk is complaint? How are people being damaged? Examples PLEASE! Are people running around screaming fire in crowded movie theaters???
Could you imagine this article in a university Journalism or English class? Sorry, you flunk on lack of newsworthiness and failing to understand that we do not live in a dictatorship without any rights.
The idiocy of this article siply amazes me! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
News:
Some people don't like certain things!
Get it while it's hot off the press. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Those without sin should cast the first stone.
I guess you are exempt from this David, right? Self-rightous git! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reactionary
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dead link |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
((a copy/paste from what I wrote over there))
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=145162
If the closest he can get to that is saying 'some bars where foreigners go', that's pretty lame.
Is there some underground world of Foreigner Bars that people sit in and talk about how they should be treated like Gods? I've been to many a place in Itaewon and haven't heard any conversation of the sort... and I'm a foreigner (guessing these Gods would say such things in front of 'thier own').
It's basically like me saying this:
"All someone need do is to head to any bar in K-Town in LA to hear about the braggart Korean Americans. A few minutes in a place like that you'll have people trying toconvince you that KorAms are the toughest around, the smartest, and the most respected. In addition to that, you'll hear most of them slagging the US and talking about how Korea is so much better"
Now sure, you might find one table of guys like this... but would the majority be like this? Some? Many?
Like I said, the quote makes sweeping generalizations about foreigners without any real backing.
It's xenophobic and poor writing.
Besides, what paper in their right mind would publish a letter containing this?
_______________________________________________________________________________
Actually there are some other parts I have troubles with...
| Quote: |
| I have been involved with Korea and Koreans for a very long time. And over the years I have noticed that many people make criticizing Korea a national sport with the majority of the comments unfair, unjust and untrue. |
Ok then, why not dispel the untrue and unfair comments?
| Quote: |
It seems that when foreigners enter these shores all the lessons of their youth seem to take flight and they return to their unschooled attitudes and opinions, lambaste everything there is about Korea, though much of what they criticize takes place in the Western world as well.
Also, I find that foreigners seem to think that they are perfect or superior to the East which, to them, gives them the right to treat Koreans in an insulting manner while expecting to be treated like kings and queens in return.
It is not difficult to find examples of this, as one only needs to frequent the numerous Western bars and other hangouts or peruse the many foreigner Web sites that exist to provide the Westerner a place to go and meet others. |
Wow, some pretty big sweeping generalities there. But yeah, I suppose that he must be right, that there is some brain sucking device in Incheon that somehow saps foreigners of their ability to assess fair judgement on a place. -neutral
| Quote: |
| No country is perfect, no one is perfect and though there is room for constructive criticism, humiliating Koreans in public is not one aspect of that part of life. |
Ok then, what is the correct setting in which to air grievances? If people are not to complain while sipping a beer at a bar, should they wait for the yearly 'town hall meeting' in Seoul to let loose??
| Quote: |
| I find that the Westerner feels that the West is the best despite its own corruption, its own racism and its own slanting of policy to gain benefits for its corporations. |
Is it possible that 'The Westerner' could find fault while living in their own country as well? That the same person complaining about the sex scandal in the Blue House ALSO complained about the Clinton one??
| Quote: |
| Foreigners seem to forget that bad treatment garners bad treatment thus much of the negative response they get from Koreans is a result of previous foreigners who have come before and have taken advantage of what generosity they were granted during their tenure here and from the direct actions from each foreigner, who is here now, toward their Korean employers, co-workers and Korea itself. |
Wow, so it's not a Korean person's fault if they are rude, it's because somewhere down the line a foreigner was rude to them!! Ah, I get it. How silly of me or not thinking that before.
Gotta' wonder though, which was the chicken and which was the egg?
| Quote: |
| Foreigners only have themselves to blame for much of what transpires during their sojourn in this country, we are not blameless and the fault does not lie with the Korean nation only. |
Wow, another sweeping statement. So those Norwegian guys that happened to be walking past the FTA protest were at fault and it was their fault that they were threatened and abused. Wow, this guy is really schooling me. I guess if a foreigner is raped or murdered, it must have been because the Korean was forced to do it because of some previous burning at a foreigners hands...
| Quote: |
| It is not right to publicly embarrass or humiliate a nation through forums that are accessed by the population, many of whom are innocent of the charges laid. Such actions only make life more difficult for foreigners and not easier. |
Well now, we're getting into freedom of speech laws and internet freedom... a very big area. Personally, I think web site operators should be held accountable for libelous and slanderous statements on their sites... but I'd hate to be the one trying to police the entire net.
I'm very curious as to where the author advises people to air their grievances...
| Quote: |
| Koreans have the right to determine the rules for their own country and foreigners need to learn to deal with problems the right way and draw the officials attention to difficulties through the proper methods and a public forum is not such an avenue. |
Ah, here it is. The 'right way' and 'drawing officials attention'... hmmm, which officials would those be? Government ones? Should I post how many times people have brought o the Seoul City Government's attention about the refuse in the street or the unsafe traffic policies?
What exactly is the Right Way? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
well apparently from the article, it seems like the author may have challenged people here, and because he was criticized mercilessly for having an opinion, he wrote this article that reached millions of koreans.
i guess its just karma? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| I'm not saying I disagree with his article; i agree with much of it. But it's a pathetic puff piece with no real research or insight. |
I agree with ChopChaeJoe, in that it I don't disagree with the basic point, but think the writer should have interviewed some foreigners to see what makes them negative or positive about living in Korea. I don't mean quoting Joe teacher saying "uuuuh, the spitting on the street is yucky!", or Sally teacher saying "I love the way old ladies give me a bonus fruit when I buy a bag of mandarins". What I mean is asking about how our own personal circumstances and attitudes tend to effect the way we see Korea. The behaviour of Koreans can be interpreted in very different ways depending on the attitude of the teacher.
Some Korean middle-school student starts asking a random teacher about their country while travelling on the bus:
Cynical Joe thinks "Bloody language leeches!"
Happy Sally thinks "Wow, Korean kids know so much more about the UK than UK kids know about Korea."
I think some of the posters on this forum are really immature, cynical, miserable pricks who don't make the effort to go out and meet the kind of cool and interesting locals who can make life in Korea so much more satisfying. The happy foreigners in Korea are too busy doing interesting stuff with interesting people to be posting on ESLcafe.
Last edited by kiwiduncan on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| just another day wrote: |
well apparently from the article, it seems like the author may have challenged people here, and because he was criticized mercilessly for having an opinion, he wrote this article that reached millions of koreans.
i guess its just karma? |
Millions of Koreans read that piece?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| just another day wrote: |
well apparently from the article, it seems like the author may have challenged people here, and because he was criticized mercilessly for having an opinion, he wrote this article that reached millions of koreans.
i guess its just karma? |
So the author was criticized mercilessly here? Where does it say that?
This article has your stink all over it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
