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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| Quote: |
New government plans to turn reclaimed land into logistics hub.
Koreas incoming administration plans to transform into a new logistics hub of Northeast Asia a huge area of tidal flats being reclaimed on the
countrys southwest coast, the presidential transition team was quoted as saying by Yonhap News Agency.
A task force has drawn up a plan to reserve 70 percent of the tidal flats for industrial use once the reclamation project is completed by 2030, it said.
The Saemangeum project calls for reclaiming 28,000 hectares of mud flats about 270 kilometers southwest of Seoul for agricultural and industrial use. The original plan stipulates that only 30 percent of the tidal flats to be reclaimed would be earmarked for non-agricultural use.
The plan to allocate more land for industrial use follows President-elect Lee Myung-baks campaign pledge to transform Saemangeum into a Dubai of East Asia with advanced financial and logistics infrastructures.
The conservative former Seoul mayor won a landslide victory on Dec. 19 by promising to revive the economy that is estimated to have grown by about 4.8 percent last year.
The original government plan did not reflect growing demand for land that could be used by businesses, a spokesman for the task force said.
The expert said that once the logistics base is built, it could take advantage of Chinas rapidly growing economy that suffers from inadequate logistics support facilities.
Work to reclaim the huge tidal flats began in 1991. Government expenditure to date hovers at more than 2.4 trillion won ($2.55 billion). A 33-kilometer-long sea wall was completed in April 2006.
Water is being drained gradually from the area to make usable land available. |
When it comes to developing all these logistics hubs and International Free Trade Zones the Korean government seems like a liitle child that repeatedly loses interest in its half-built sand castles and keeps on wandering aimlessly down the beach making more. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Why doesn't he just build a dome over Korea and sink the whole peninsula under the sea? Jesus would be very happy. |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| A good idea, except for one small problem: Won't it be a little wet by the year 2030? Haven't they heard sea levels are going to rise due to global warming? |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| That is just what I thought. Water level increasing=let's build on tidal flats that will be completely underwater in 15 years. 천재. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, on reading further I take back my original criticism.
It appears they don't want to simply make these internationally important wetlands and mudflats the "Dubai of the North-East". According to their well thought-out 20 year plan the development will later be referred to as "the Venice of the North-East", with the intention to rename it "the Atlantis of the North-East" by 2040.
Here's a picture of a bunch of the corrupt old dinosaurs checking out their latest masterplan and exchanging advice about good hairdyes.
Last edited by kiwiduncan on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dirty_scraps83
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
According to their well thought-out 20 year plan the development will later be referred to as "the Venice of the North-East", with the intention to rename it "the Atlantis of the North-East" by 2040.
Here's a picture of a bunch of the corrupt old dinosaurs checking out their latest masterplan and exchanging advice about good hairdyes.
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hahaha gold! |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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Let me ask you something. Do you really know what you are talking about? Or do you just plain dislike Lee Myung-bak?
I mean, on what basis do you have for criticizing the whole plan? Do you have a copy of blueprint of its construction? Can you read Korean like a native Korean and know all the details? Are you an expert in this area? And so on...
Personally, I don't care for President-elect Lee for I am more of a left-leaning person. And yet, I would be foolish to criticize some policy based on reading some abbreviated English article.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but, I found this forum to be filled with "pseudo Korean expert" who think they know so much about Korea after staying for a few years and learning rudimentary Korean.
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| Quote: |
New government plans to turn reclaimed land into logistics hub.
Koreas incoming administration plans to transform into a new logistics hub of Northeast Asia a huge area of tidal flats being reclaimed on the
countrys southwest coast, the presidential transition team was quoted as saying by Yonhap News Agency.
A task force has drawn up a plan to reserve 70 percent of the tidal flats for industrial use once the reclamation project is completed by 2030, it said.
The Saemangeum project calls for reclaiming 28,000 hectares of mud flats about 270 kilometers southwest of Seoul for agricultural and industrial use. The original plan stipulates that only 30 percent of the tidal flats to be reclaimed would be earmarked for non-agricultural use.
The plan to allocate more land for industrial use follows President-elect Lee Myung-baks campaign pledge to transform Saemangeum into a Dubai of East Asia with advanced financial and logistics infrastructures.
The conservative former Seoul mayor won a landslide victory on Dec. 19 by promising to revive the economy that is estimated to have grown by about 4.8 percent last year.
The original government plan did not reflect growing demand for land that could be used by businesses, a spokesman for the task force said.
The expert said that once the logistics base is built, it could take advantage of Chinas rapidly growing economy that suffers from inadequate logistics support facilities.
Work to reclaim the huge tidal flats began in 1991. Government expenditure to date hovers at more than 2.4 trillion won ($2.55 billion). A 33-kilometer-long sea wall was completed in April 2006.
Water is being drained gradually from the area to make usable land available. |
When it comes to developing all these logistics hubs and International Free Trade Zones the Korean government seems like a liitle child that repeatedly loses interest in its half-built sand castles and keeps on wandering aimlessly down the beach making more. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| markhan wrote: |
Let me ask you something. Do you really know what you are talking about? Or do you just plain dislike Lee Myung-bak?
I mean, on what basis do you have for criticizing the whole plan? Do you have a copy of blueprint of its construction? Can you read Korean like a native Korean and know all the details? Are you an expert in this area? And so on...
Personally, I don't care for President-elect Lee for I am more of a left-leaning person. And yet, I would be foolish to criticize some policy based on reading some abbreviated English article.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but, I found this forum to be filled with "pseudo Korean expert" who think they know so much about Korea after staying for a few years and learning rudimentary Korean.
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It doesn't take a lot of expertise to see what's going on. Lee Myungbag got elected because of a vanity project and the promise to make many more vanity projects. This has been going on for years and this one article is just another example. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| markhan wrote: |
Let me ask you something. Do you really know what you are talking about? Or do you just plain dislike Lee Myung-bak?
I mean, on what basis do you have for criticizing the whole plan? Do you have a copy of blueprint of its construction? Can you read Korean like a native Korean and know all the details? Are you an expert in this area? And so on...
Personally, I don't care for President-elect Lee for I am more of a left-leaning person. And yet, I would be foolish to criticize some policy based on reading some abbreviated English article.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but, I found this forum to be filled with "pseudo Korean expert" who think they know so much about Korea after staying for a few years and learning rudimentary Korean. |
Both actually  . Well, to be honest I'm not an expert, but I consider myself pretty well-informed about the issues that I take an interest in. In fact, I'll be happy if you prove me wrong on my criticisms of the Saemangeum project. Do some research and send me the links. My Korean is not so great and it'll take some time to read, but I will get the basics
I've been in Korea for five years and I am still far from fluent in Korean. However, my Korean is sufficient enough to be able to understand what is being said about the Saemangeum project (and the equally stupid grand canal plan) on various Korean websites. I just need a lot of time and patience and my ever reliable electronic dictionary 
Check out www.gobada.co.kr if you want to learn more about the problems with the grand canal scheme. Take note that even though this site was set-up in opposition to the canal project they have the decency to allow supporters of the project to also voice their opinions (LMB's 자유게시판 in contrast is suspiciously lacking in any single criticizm however).
As for Saemangeum and the opposition to it, check out these links:
http://www.nongbalge.or.kr/
http://buan21.com/bbs/view.php?id=buan21&no=4149
I guess that from now on, given that my Korean is far from fluent, I should refrain from commenting on any social, environmental or economic issues here in Korea. In turn Koreans without any knowledge of Japanese should refrain from criticizing Japanese politicians' visits to Yasukuni shrine, as they have no way of understanding the subtle complexities of Japanese politics. Equally, it can only be for the best that any Korean farmers without a TOIEC score of over 900 abandon protesting against the FTA with the United States. And let's just forget about taking an interest in Vladimir Putin's crackdown on the nascent democracy movement in Russia, Da?
Last edited by kiwiduncan on Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know much about these plans.
I do know that this President is finally putting Japanese colonialism behind.
That's a very good thing. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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From today's paper here's a quote from Chang Ha-Joon, a professor of Developmental Economics at Cambridge University, also commenting on the risks of trying to create a 'Dubai' in Korea.
| Quote: |
| Dubai is a city-state relying on services, but it is a country with less than quarter of a million citizens. Even including the foreign workers, which make up over 80 percent of the workforce, the countrys population is less than 1.5 million. Korea, with 50 million people, cannot follow that model. Even if it could, there is no room for another Singapore or Hong Kong in Asia. Dubai succeeded exactly because there was no one else in the region offering the kind of financial services it does. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| markhan wrote: |
Let me ask you something. Do you really know what you are talking about? Or do you just plain dislike Lee Myung-bak?
I mean, on what basis do you have for criticizing the whole plan? Do you have a copy of blueprint of its construction? Can you read Korean like a native Korean and know all the details? Are you an expert in this area? And so on...
Personally, I don't care for President-elect Lee for I am more of a left-leaning person. And yet, I would be foolish to criticize some policy based on reading some abbreviated English article.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but, I found this forum to be filled with "pseudo Korean expert" who think they know so much about Korea after staying for a few years and learning rudimentary Korean.
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i'm with marhkan on this one. thanks to this thread and the other one about the canal, i was able to inspire a debate in my adult class tonight which ate up a good 30 minutes between my two students.
i'm not saying that there isn't an environmental problem out there, or that global warming is some kind of conspiracy theory. but i do think that the guys who thought up and were willing to finance these big plans took this into consideration.
maybe, just maybe, noah won't be building his next ark in the next 15 years.
i'll admit i don't know enough about all of the ins and outs of the environment to get into a heated debate, but when someone posts an argument like this
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
I was discussing the canal plans with one of my students at lunchtime today. He mentioned that one of the justifications cited for building the canal is that it will reduce transportation costs and greenhouse gases emissions.
However, the construction itself will have huge financial and environmental costs, including all the greenhouse gases from the construction machinery, concrete laying and so on. |
i begin to get a little skeptical. the construction of a canal is a finite operation, and not a hugely major one at that. i truly believe that the earth can bounce back from this canal project.
whether it's a good idea or not, i don't know. that's why i'm with markhan on this one. i'd be willing to bet that most of the people posting on this thread don't know any better than i do whether or not this reclaimed land business or the canal will make korea better or worse. but i'd also be willing to bet that there are a few koreans who know more than i do about it. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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If this is the one I am thinking of I wouldn't get worried because they have been talking and fighting over it for the entire time I have been here (5 years).
First it was going to be only for rice farms.
Then developers realized: 1. No one wants to farm in Korea 2. Golf courses and ugly apartment buildings turn a huge profit.
So the plan changed to be apartments and golf courses.
Then it was changed to industrial use because the Roh administration was desperate to move industry out of the Seoul area and into less developed areas.
Now Lee is going to turn it into something else.
Like his 7% promise or his canal promise (both which have been changed or delayed in some way, all within 4 weeks of the damn election) I wouldn't get my teats all twisted just yet. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
i'm with marhkan on this one. thanks to this thread and the other one about the canal, i was able to inspire a debate in my adult class tonight which ate up a good 30 minutes between my two students.
i'm not saying that there isn't an environmental problem out there, or that global warming is some kind of conspiracy theory. but i do think that the guys who thought up and were willing to finance these big plans took this into consideration.
maybe, just maybe, noah won't be building his next ark in the next 15 years.
i'll admit i don't know enough about all of the ins and outs of the environment to get into a heated debate, but when someone posts an argument like this
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
I was discussing the canal plans with one of my students at lunchtime today. He mentioned that one of the justifications cited for building the canal is that it will reduce transportation costs and greenhouse gases emissions.
However, the construction itself will have huge financial and environmental costs, including all the greenhouse gases from the construction machinery, concrete laying and so on. |
i begin to get a little skeptical. the construction of a canal is a finite operation, and not a hugely major one at that. i truly believe that the earth can bounce back from this canal project.
whether it's a good idea or not, i don't know. that's why i'm with markhan on this one. i'd be willing to bet that most of the people posting on this thread don't know any better than i do whether or not this reclaimed land business or the canal will make korea better or worse. but i'd also be willing to bet that there are a few koreans who know more than i do about it. |
It's more than building a canal. They will be pretty much altering the entire river systems. Have you ever taken the train from Yangpyong to Seoul? The railway runs beside the Han river for a large stretch of the trip and it's clear that the river there is not particularly deep and will require a huge amount of dredging - not just of river mud and silt but of huge boulders and rocks. This will be the case for many long stretches of both the Han and Nakdong rivers. The dredging work will be on-going, expensive and will come at the cost of the destruction of many natural ecosystems and considerable greenhouse gases.
I'm also willing to bet there are many more Koreans who know better about this project than I do. It is in fact their websites, blogs and articles that I've been checking out on a regular basis. And it's these same sources that have backed-up and strengthened my opposition to these farcical projects.
You've just admitted that you "don't know enough about the ins and outs of the environment to get into a heated debate", so maybe it's time you did some research. As I said to Mark, please feel free to try and prove me wrong.
To save you the inconvenience of having to go back through this and other threads for the various links I've put in, here are some of them now.
www.gobada.co.kr (opposition to the grand canal)
www.kfem.or.kr (a major Korean environmental website - try searching for 대운하 반대 or 새만금 반대)
http://www.nongbalge.or.kr/ (opposition to the Saemangeum project)
http://buan21.com/bbs/view.php?id=buan21&no=4149 (Saemangeum opposition)
These sites are all opposed to the saemangeum and grand canal projects, but please don't hesitate to put up some links to sites supporting LMB's plans. If you're anything like me you may not be able to read the various sites with native Korean speaker efficiency, and it might take some time to find the evidence you require to back up your opposition or support for LMB's projects, but it's great Korean practice eh?
Basically your argument so far boils down to this "I don't really know anything about this, and I don't think you know anything about this, and maybe some other guys know a lot more, so we should just keep out of it". Imagine this logic in a court room.
Suddenly, from the packed gallery, a member of the public jumped out and said "hey, your judgeshipness, I don't know anything about this trial, but I reckon that prosecutor doesn't know anything either. Surely the defendent is the only one who really knows what went on that night. Can't we just all go out and have a beer?" |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Lee Myung Park's other stupid plan |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| endofthewor1d wrote: |
i'm with marhkan on this one. thanks to this thread and the other one about the canal, i was able to inspire a debate in my adult class tonight which ate up a good 30 minutes between my two students.
i'm not saying that there isn't an environmental problem out there, or that global warming is some kind of conspiracy theory. but i do think that the guys who thought up and were willing to finance these big plans took this into consideration.
maybe, just maybe, noah won't be building his next ark in the next 15 years.
i'll admit i don't know enough about all of the ins and outs of the environment to get into a heated debate, but when someone posts an argument like this
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
I was discussing the canal plans with one of my students at lunchtime today. He mentioned that one of the justifications cited for building the canal is that it will reduce transportation costs and greenhouse gases emissions.
However, the construction itself will have huge financial and environmental costs, including all the greenhouse gases from the construction machinery, concrete laying and so on. |
i begin to get a little skeptical. the construction of a canal is a finite operation, and not a hugely major one at that. i truly believe that the earth can bounce back from this canal project.
whether it's a good idea or not, i don't know. that's why i'm with markhan on this one. i'd be willing to bet that most of the people posting on this thread don't know any better than i do whether or not this reclaimed land business or the canal will make korea better or worse. but i'd also be willing to bet that there are a few koreans who know more than i do about it. |
It's more than building a canal. They will be pretty much altering the entire river systems. Have you ever taken the train from Yangpyong to Seoul? The railway runs beside the Han river for a large stretch of the trip and it's clear that the river there is not particularly deep and will require a huge amount of dredging - not just of river mud and silt but of huge boulders and rocks. This will be the case for many long stretches of both the Han and Nakdong rivers. The dredging work will be on-going, expensive and will come at the cost of the destruction of many natural ecosystems and considerable greenhouse gases.
I'm also willing to bet there are many more Koreans who know better about this project than I do. It is in fact their websites, blogs and articles that I've been checking out on a regular basis. And it's these same sources that have backed-up and strengthened my opposition to these farcical projects.
You've just admitted that you "don't know enough about the ins and outs of the environment to get into a heated debate", so maybe it's time you did some research. As I said to Mark, please feel free to try and prove me wrong.
To save you the inconvenience of having to go back through this and other threads for the various links I've put in, here are some of them now.
www.gobada.co.kr (opposition to the grand canal)
www.kfem.or.kr (a major Korean environmental website - try searching for 대운하 반대 or 새만금 반대)
http://www.nongbalge.or.kr/ (opposition to the Saemangeum project)
http://buan21.com/bbs/view.php?id=buan21&no=4149 (Saemangeum opposition)
These sites are all opposed to the saemangeum and grand canal projects, but please don't hesitate to put up some links to sites supporting LMB's plans. If you're anything like me you may not be able to read the various sites with native Korean speaker efficiency, and it might take some time to find the evidence you require to back up your opposition or support for LMB's projects, but it's great Korean practice eh?
Basically your argument so far boils down to this "I don't really know anything about this, and I don't think you know anything about this, and maybe some other guys know a lot more, so we should just keep out of it". |
i don't have an argument really. i'm just saying that markhan had a point.
you strike me as the type of guy who would build a highway around a slug rather than move the slug out of the way, taking for granted that you'd even lower yourself to the opinion that a highway should be constructed in the first place.
you're all about the environment. that's fine. i just think that there are other things to consider. i'm not saying that the canal or the saemangeum project are good things. i don't know enough about them, and i really don't care enough to look at your links or research them at all.
what i do think is that people like you have a kneejerk reaction to any sort of big construction plan, and some of your arguments take away from your credibility.
maybe you're right. i don't know. i don't really care either. i just thought that markhan had a valid point and that it deserved a little more attention. |
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