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Mother Teresa: corrupt, ignorant and unhelpful?
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seoulunitarian

Joined: 06 Jul 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: re:

Underwaterbob wrote:

Didn't the pope and some famous scientist (maybe Hawkings) have some discussion or interaction at some point. The pope said that science was great and could explain everything it wanted to after the instant the big bang occurred but that science was to leave that which happened before it to religion? I guess this would be before science starting trying to speculate about what happened before.

I'm not sure if my story was just a joke or something I dreamed or reality. I guess the point is that two intelligent people should realize that their beliefs have no reason to not exist in harmony.

I agree with Itaewonguy in that there is insubstantial evidence to prove the existence or non-existence of a god or gods.

I agree with whoever else that there is substantial evidence to support evolution.

Why must the two be exclusionary?

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely: I'm drunk

On the contrary: two intelligent people should be able to realize that their two divergent beliefs should be founded on evidence, and that the one with the most evidence is provisionally factual. This is where lack of critical thinking education has gotten us.

Peace

seoulunitarian

Joined: 06 Jul 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: re:

itaewonguy wrote:

Underwaterbob wrote:

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely

No you are not.. Its just that mind me too wants 100% evidence to show intelligent design to prove me wrong.. But he doesn�t have 100% evidence of only evolution by natural selection.. But he has made up his mind that their is no god. He advocates for atheism and that�s it.. He doesn�t want to hear anything else...

He only looks for answers of no god in molecules, atoms, DNA, proteins etc.. ..

but it just shows how low level minded he is because he is stuck only in molecular biology and believes all the answers to no god lies there..

He doesn�t think about spirit, the complexity of the consciousness, philosophy, cosmology, spirituality, free will, physics, and neurobiology
And so many other areas which have unexplained answers which all lead to possibilities of a creator.. Now im not saying ohh because science hasn�t proven it means its god!
All I am saying is.. Give god a chance! He has been in the game from the time man questioned life till right now.. So why throw him out of the race!
Just because men are looking into science for answers doesn�t mean their is no god..
He is a pessimist.. And I am an optimist..

I live my life with the door open! he lives his with a closed one!

Would 80% evidence for no god convince you to take a provisional stand? 85%? 90%? Why do you insist on 100% evidence for anything to take a stand on a certain issue? Do you, in fact, have 100% evidence for anything you believe to be true?

Peace

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

[
I didn�t see any reference to a page taking me to a scientific reproductive experiment showing an EYE evolving! Or still haven�t seen any reference to where a scientist has claimed to have all the evidence of evolution in man.. Im sorry I keep missing it, could you be so kind of send me a link of a scientist who has claimed this and has done an experiment an eye and capturing its evolution process.. Rolling Eyes

Then you need to investigate the wiki page on eye evolution and the science referenced in that.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/11/the_eye_as_a_contingent_divers.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/evolution_of_vertebrate_eyes.php

Sorry, we don't evolve eyes in the lab from a single photoreceptor, any more so than we recreate a world wide ice age to test the formation of moraines. We don't recreate stars in the lab to test theories of star formation. We test the biological pathway eyes can evolve and we examine if this evolution is matched in the animal kingdom, which it is. If you have both a pathway and examples of this pathway at each stage, well, that's good enough for science, but I guess not a cook in Itaewon. Oh well.

Quote:

No theory explains everything. Argument from ignorance is no argument.

B I N G O now go look in the mirror..!!

Study some logic and then get back to me.

Quote:

Not only is the fossil record lacking in the number of transitional forms that evolutionary theory requires, but the sudden appearance of complex, multi-cellular life is even more problematic for Darwinian gradualism.

Just because the fossil record is lacking for a cook doesn't mean it's lacking for science.

Quote:

The physical structure of DNA is enormously complex, and scientists have no idea how such a molecule could have physically originated by natural processes alone. But the real mystery lies in the origin of the coded instructions on the DNA molecule. These instructions are of a fundamentally different nature than the physical molecules on which they are carried. The molecules and chemical reactions are material (i.e. physical) in nature. But the instructions are non-material. The instructions are carried by the chemical components of DNA, but the instructions are not physical entities. The instructions cause the molecules of our cells to do specific things, so they can obviously influence and affect the physical world. But the instructions are non-physical, non-material.

Could you cite where you're copying and pasting this from?

All this can be explain by the fact we're just a computer program and we were all created last thursday with memories. Hey, plug in any just so story you want. But it's just a just so story until you offer compelling lines of scientific evidence. This brings us to the molecular evidence which you still need to address.

Quote:

So my point is with uncertainties like this still around how can we just choose one side?

Because one side offers testable science and the other side just makes claims and does no research or experimentation to back their claims.

Quote:

You have all changed your stance from first saying there is NO GOD!
Now to saying its possible! But I believe their isn�t..

Where did I say I was certain there was no god?

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

[

Where did I say I was certain there was no god?

hahahhahaha whatever..

lets just cut through all your drivel and hot air ok..

Do you believe in the possibilities of a god ?

everything else you drivel about is just that! im sorry science hasnt even come close to the real answers... they have answered the easy questions.
the most difficult and unexplained ones are so complex I doubt humans will be able to really ever crack them!
answer that question.. but be careful its a trick question isnt!
im sure you will just evade the question. you are a closest agnostic and we both know it!!

Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: re:

seoulunitarian wrote:

My point was that these beliefs are not necessarily divergent.

Einstein's relativity "disproved" Newtonian mechanics. Technically Newtonian mechanics are false because they fail to take into account the speed of light. Engineers, however, certainly don't use the theory of relativity to build a car, they use Newtonian mechanics.

The two beliefs are divergent. I really don't think we'd want to deal without having one or the other.

Where has the lack of critical thinking education gotten us?

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: re:

seoulunitarian wrote:

sorry this is a little long.. hope you read it to understand more about me.

No 80% I would not.. Because I live on a planet where the impossible becomes the possible! So as we believe we evolved from slime in water.
And everything you see today around is a result of that! If you asked me, that�s impossible. God created the universe! That�s impossible!
A man can fly that�s impossible! But it�s all possible..
We are living in a world of impossibilities which we just take for granted because we believe science has told us the answers to it.. It took us billions of years to evolve so we could answer the questions in the past 25 years with computers??

Man wants a scientific answer for everything! But isn�t it possible that maybe that�s just not possible so we come up with probabilities!?
We proved the world was round that was considered impossible
200 years ago if we told people we are a result of slime in mud..
They would call us crazy.. Well now we believe it because Darwin has a theory and with research with that idea as the source material we find ways to link that theory to everything..
Just like Christians and other religious believers do with their theories..
We are going through a time of a new belief! Its possible in 400 years from now 50% of the world will believe in Aliens and we are from them!
Too many mysterious in this world to say Impossible! So why even say well very unlikely? Where does the will of man come from? Why did we evolve? What is the purpose of evolution?? So many questions with only theories for answers! Impossible for those answers isn�t or is it?
1 out of 4 Americans have experienced ghosts or paranormal
Are they all crazy?? Are they just having brain farts? Maybe, but what if just one! Just one!! Was right.. What if?�
Now that�s just America TODAY.. Not the past 500 years or every other country in the world present and past... But skeptics are always saying WELL IT ISN�T GHOSTS! Its delusion, this or that! No such thing as paranormal but there is more records pointing that there is to MIND ME TOO�S lack of transitional fossil evidence! which he doesnt need for his beliefs!
Some people who point to science when something can�t be explained they say �well there is a scientific explanation for it we just haven�t found it yet but it isn�t the dead�..
Just like it isn�t GOD.. If you see the world as a skeptic or a pessimist then everything around it will be perceived that way! That�s how your consciousness has been taught to think... its doing what you program it to..
So having an open mind will open you up to more possibilities. The greatest minds of the past were not closed minded people.. They were dreamers !!
But hey..We need the balance of believers and non believers to help each other all reach the same goal! We all get motivation from each other but I choose to live my life as an optimist its so much more rewarding for me. And I can take that stance also scientifically because the evidence or lack of supports my claim! Too many locked secrets and mysterious in our mind, body and soul for scientists to just say well we have a hypothesis, a theory, or a testimony. So you are wrong! �We have substantial evidence so I�m sorry you are wrong�
YES these same scientists and people like you guys back in history would have all been preaching to me that the WORLD IS FLAT! You are stupid to consider its round!!! But I would have considered it !! Would you have???
YEAH! Then I must question doctors and say.. Then explain how a gray white piece of mush in my cranium is projecting thought and sensory feelings of emotion, recording data, having a conversation with you about the existence of a god or no god Etc Etc.. What�s your theory on that doc?
We can come up with a hypothesis of it..
Doesn�t mean it�s the facts.
Pretty impossible to comprehend really. So living in a world where impossibilities come true! I stay open to anything is possible! So my stand on this issue is! I DON�T KNOW! As should everyone else�s.. But hey! We live in a world of entertainment and information.
If we all said I DON�T KNOW! Then we wouldn�t have debates, books, movies, TV shows, documentaries.. I guess my character is just one of many who choose to believe in the impossible! Because history shows that impossibilities come true! Open the mind and see the real wonders of this planet! And then really ask yourself do I have all the facts to make a certain yes or no statement?

thanks for taking time to read it..
peace..

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

Do you believe in the possibilities of a god [?

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

Quote:

im sorry science hasnt even come close to the real answers... they have answered the easy questions.

Yeah, Maxwell really just took the easy way out with his equations on electromagnetism.

Quote:

the most difficult and unexplained ones are so complex I doubt humans will be able to really ever crack them!

Yeah, people didn't think they could ever figure out where lightening came from.

Billy Pilgrim

Joined: 08 Sep 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: re:

seoulunitarian wrote:

itaewonguy wrote:

Underwaterbob wrote:

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely

I think itaewonguy's basic strategy when rationalizing a personal belief is to take the directly opposite belief (or the closest surrogate he can manufacture), claim that there is not 100% proof that the opposite belief is true or correct, and thus proudly claim the validity of his original belief.

It's a neat trick. Totally lacks even a little bit of rational thought, but a neat trick anyway.

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

I knew you would evade the question..

You don�t form a belief???? Really.. You stating there is no god is a BELIEF!! Your mentors, Dawkins and Hitchens have made up their minds! They BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD!! And so do you from what I have read in these past 50 pages.. Just as Christians believe in JESUS! You believe their is no GOD!!
NOW do you understand???
Hahahahah dude!!!
Either you believe or you don�t believe what is it?????
I am AGNOSTIC! I believe in some higher power..
Last I checked you are an Atheist!! Are you changing your view now??

Quote:

Yeah, Maxwell really just took the easy way out with his equations on electromagnetism.

Yeah wasn�t that hard at all when its staring you right in the face isn�t !!
How one mind can see it versus how another mind misses it is a mystery isn�t it.. Why can�t I paint like van Gogh? Why can�t I sing like Pavarotti?

Quote:

Yeah, people didn't think they could ever figure out where lightening came from

Did they??? Maybe they thought one day we will understand where it came from... ohhhhh yes you are right.. Pessimists like you would have thought that way!
Will you please stop comparing apples and oranges all the time.. Its getting old real fast..

Billy Pilgrim wrote:

What�s the tick.. I�ve stated all along their is not enough evidence to prove god doesn�t exist! Or we evolve without intelligent design!
It�s not a trick! It�s called common sense!!!

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

I knew you would evade the question..

You don�t form a belief???? Really.. You stating there is no god is a BELIEF!!

Hot air.

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

I knew you would evade the question..

You don�t form a belief???? Really.. You stating there is no god is a BELIEF!!

Hot air.

you are a religious freak and worse than the inquisition!!

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:11 am Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

I knew you would evade the question..

You don�t form a belief???? Really.. You stating there is no god is a BELIEF!!

Hot air.

you are a religious freak and worse than the inquisition!!

I gave you a logically valid answer. You claimed I evaded the question. If you're so poorly educated in logic that you can't grasp the answer, then you're just blowing hot air.

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

itaewonguy wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

I don't eliminate any possibility. Maybe there really is a santa too. But I don't form a belief until I have adequate evidence. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. Do you not understand?

I knew you would evade the question..

You don�t form a belief???? Really.. You stating there is no god is a BELIEF!!

Hot air.

you are a religious freak and worse than the inquisition!!

I gave you a logically valid answer. You claimed I evaded the question. If you're so poorly educated in logic that you can't grasp the answer, then you're just blowing hot air.

you call HOT AIR an answer!! you keep avoiding the answers because you dont have one idiot!!

ill ask you again...

" show me evidence of a god not existing"???
prove to me that god doesnt exist!!

show me that evidence.. ill be here all week..!

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