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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
I dunno. I guess they knew enough to do some damage in the pre gunpowder warfare of north america ages.
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| Although the victory is not widely appreciated, it is apparent that native Americans won their first contest with European invaders. By AD 1500, the Norse settlements in Greenland and elsewhere in the New World had been abandoned. The Dorset people had also disappeared by this time, and the Inuit inherited all of the arctic-and some of the subarctic-regions of the New World. |
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The first contact with Europeans came from the Vikings, who settled Greenland and explored the eastern Canadian coast. Norse literature speaks of skr�lingar, most likely an undifferentiated label for all the native peoples of the Americas the Norse contacted, Tuniit, Inuit and Beothuks alike. Archaeological evidence suggests that the Tuniit had abandoned Greenland around 200 AD. They reoccupied areas in the far north of Greenland sometime around 1000, but the Norse settlements were in the south and southwest of the island. It is likely that the area of the Norse settlements was unoccupied at the time they arrived. |
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well, i was speaking of the ones in 1400. not 1000. the Norse also moved around IN THAT AREA, like the Inuit did. Clearly they knew of each other, moved around, fought for resources, until the 1400's. When Occam's Razor would say, one group most likely lost a final battle.
400 years, they fought. I dunno, are u saying the Viking's are wussies that fled battle? |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
400 years, they fought. I dunno, are u saying the Viking's are wussies that fled battle? |
ok you get the last word. But anyone can see that you lost  |
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Darashii
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Asians are just light-skinned Africans who wandered too far off the beaten path.  |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| but when did asians discover that they were asians? |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
400 years, they fought. I dunno, are u saying the Viking's are wussies that fled battle? |
ok you get the last word. But anyone can see that you lost |
well there is no evidence of a mass migration back home.
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| The questions persist: what happened in the end to the last of the Greenlanders? what fate did the people who laid their loved ones to rest in this graveyard by the sea meet? who buried them when they died, and where? did the Greenlanders give up the island and depart for North America, as was said of the western settlers? It is hard to imagine such a mass-migration occurring, if for no other reason than that the islanders lacked the boats to carry it out. Without a ready source of nails, bolts, and wood for repairs, any ships that may have survived from earlier days would have made a leaky fleet indeed. |
http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/greenland/
So if they ate fish, didn't move back home, then occam's razor would say they either died out one by one, or they died in battle with the Inuits. Thats the way I see it. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Vikings died out on Greenland due to lack of planning and inability to change. Not war. No reason it's any different for Newfoundland. |
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paquebot
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Northern Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| the Norse also moved around IN THAT AREA, like the Inuit did. Clearly they knew of each other, moved around, fought for resources, until the 1400's. When Occam's Razor would say, one group most likely lost a final battle. |
From the abstract to Park, Robert W. (1993) The Dorset-Thule Succession in Arctic North America: Assessing Claims for Future Contact. American Antiquity 58(2):203-234:
Let me see ... a Canadian anthropologist published in one of the premier archaeological publications is claiming that what looks like contact between the Dorset and the Thule cultures might not be contact after all. And he has evidence, too. In other words: the Thule assumed control of Dorset land without 'major warfare' and with the possibility of never coming face-to-face. If this is all carefully laid out shouldn't you be using Occam's Razor to claim that the Thule scavenged from Norse camps? Since, you know, if the Thule did it once the 'simplest' explanation is that they did it multiple times ...
But what are the odds of that happening? |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Look, we know native Americans wiped out their fair share of settlements in colonial times, and remained a considerable threat right up until the Revolutionary War. That ought to satisfy jad's need to see white people get their asses kicked without needing to distort the history of Viking Greenland.
The Indians of the northeast aren't as 'Asian' looking as the Inuit, it is true, but I'm sure that won't stop just another day claiming them as 'relatives'. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| sojourner1 wrote: |
I was amazed to learn about the the sunken Chinese explorers about 10 years ago. I understand it happened like 500 to 800 years ago. I can't remember the name of the museum, but it's in the historic cobble stone district part of downtown Kansas City. |
Hmm, the only boat museum in Kansas City, that I'm aware of, is the Steamboat Arabia. Which sank in 1856.
See http://www.1856.com/.
Seems strange that Chinese explorers would have sailed all the way around South America, to the Mississippi, and up to Kansas City. |
1421 |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| paquebot wrote: |
If this is all carefully laid out shouldn't you be using Occam's Razor to claim that the Thule scavenged from Norse camps? Since, you know, if the Thule did it once the 'simplest' explanation is that they did it multiple times ...
But what are the odds of that happening? |
I dunno why they would, Inuit had superior hunting and food gathering techniques than the Vikings. The only thing I would assume is that they had competition for resources. |
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