Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rteacher]

I'm asking because I'm scheduled to have arthroscopic knee surgery (torn meniscus and ligament damage...) done (at St. Vincent's Hospital in Suwon...) but they're insisting that I need to stay in the hospital for three days (and nights) significantly adding to the bill, I'm sure.

From what I've read on the Internet, such surgery in the U.S. is usually an out-patient procedure, though the patient might require to use crutches for a day-or-two.

My mother had it done, and she says it was very minor, and she was able to walk out of the doctor's office.

I have Korean National Insurance, and my MRI (from a different hospital) cost me 353,000 won - but I've heard from a Korean co-teacher that it is mostly not covered by insurance, while arthroscopic surgery is .

When asked by me for a price estimate for the actual surgery (I've already paid another 100,000 won -or so- for preliminary tests) the orthopedic surgeon just commented that it was "very cheap" compared to the U.S., and I've already had the MRI done which was an expensive part of it.

When I came in today (for the third time) to finally make a definite appointment, I pressed him to give a price range (so I'll know how much I'll need to borrow from my department head till payday) and he mumbled something - which I insisted he write down (because most Koreans can't read large numbers in English or place commas correctly.)

He expressed that - with insurance - it would be less than 1 million won, and he said that their system required that I should check in the day before surgery, and I would leave two days after.

When I said that the price was higher than I could afford without borrowing money, he quipped that it should be no problem for me since foreign English teachers "make around 4 million won a month."

Realizing that even supposedly educated Koreans think that whatever they see reported on TV about a few foreign teachers must apply to all of us ticked me off, and I set him straight that most teachers made less than what I make - 2 million 400 thousand won.

Furthermore, I told him that arthroscopic surgery in the U.S. is usually just an outpatient procedure. His response was that their system was different, and he had me go with a nurse for more definite financial details.

They quoted me a price of 1 million, 300 thousand won (30% higher than his estimate) and they told me that was the cheapest room - with six beds.

Fired up, I insisted on seeing the doctor again, and I was led to another orthopedic doctor who spoke somewhat better English.

He told me that the prices were "actually lower" than what they quoted, and he wrote down 700,000 won for the 6-bed room for three days.

I pointed out that such a long hospital stay shouldn't be necessary for arthroscopic knee surgery (where they're just gonna trim the meniscus and not even treat the ligament damage and partially torn ACL...) and he said that maybe it could be reduced to two days.

Since I'm a strict vegetarian, do at least an hour of chanting every morning, and am a very light sleeper I really don't like the idea of unnecessarily staying in a room with five Korean strangers for three days.

They said a two-bed room might be available for 200,000 won more (making it 900,000 won) I asked how much cheaper it would be if I just stayed two nights, but he just laughed and shook his head...

My Korean co-teacher thought that their price was too high for arthroscopic surgery and suggested I try another hospital, but the first three major clinics in Seoul that I called had wait times extending till May (at the earliest...)

Unless someone can suggest a better alternative that they know of, I guess I'm stuck at this place from Thursday till Sunday ...

I shudder to think how much it would cost without insurance...

[tatu]

I had the surgery when i lived in Canada and I can't understand why they need you to stay in the hospital for so long. I was in the hospital after the surgery until the drugs wore off then on my way home. There was mild discomfort but no real pain. As recommended I was went to the gym two days later to ride the stationary bike to start strengthening.

My understanding is that their concern isn't for your well being but to make money. What possible need is there for you to stay there?

You don't have to listen to the doctors. If you fell well after you surgery just go home. its a very simple procedure. I had a korean friend stay in the hospital for 2 weeks with a broken foot and that was because she had insurance. She said she didn't even need to be there.

As an aside the drugs that they gave me for the surgery to put me under felt awesome when i woke up. I'll never forget the recovery room.

[earthbound14]

I had this done in Canada, not Korea. So I can't give you too much advice on Korea.

This procedure is very simple and does not require a hospital stay. There is no reason to observe a patient for that amount of time after such a minor operation. They will not put you under (should only be using a spinal) and they aren't doing anything that might affect anything vital (except your knees for walking...so that might be kinda vital, but not life threatening). The only reason they want you to come in early is because you can't eat prior to the surgery. If they are doing a graft to repair the ligament then a stay in the hospital might be needed as they will cut some ligament from another place and graft it to the damaged area....not fun really. Many doctors tell patients with half torn ligaments to wear braces during sports and wait to see if the ligament fully tears before they do anything...the graft can cause arthritic pain and damage to the good tissue.

Also you need to be sure that you need the surgery. It often gets done when it really doesn't need to be done. Many doctors see damage and jump right into surgery. Most will tell you that these sort of things don't really heal. Really it just takes a long time. It is very slow to heal. It's best to see if it resolves itself before you jump into surgery. Even after the surgery it does take along time to heal. A month for basic use but realistically a year to be as good as new. Take the time to see if it heals, rest, ice, and rehab....you'll need it after the surgery anyway. Try accupuncture, or bees venom accupuncture. They use stimulation to increase the healing process (stimulate the healing process)...I think that's how they work. I've heard of another treatment that intentionally does minor damage (or agrevates) the joint in order to speed up the healing process (this should all be done after the ice treatment and after swelling has gone down). Unfortunately I don't know the name of it off hand, but basically they inject a fluid that causes minor agrevation in the joint.This is a tough call to make when you your self are not a doctor. Talk to others who have had it done, talk to a doctor who has lots of experience with patients who have had surgery and others who have had success without it. A doctor who knows nothing of the healing potential is probably not a good candidate to perform the surgery as they really can't say if it is or is not needed.

Korea, like home, has some hospitals that do some things well. Korea also does certain procedures very well while not doing others well. You should do a little research online to try and find out what procedures are good to have done in Korea or rather your home country. You should also have a Korean friend look into what hospital or doctor has a good reputation for this sort of thing. When I had my knees done it was done by an fellow skier and specialist in knees (his clinic did more knee scopes than any other clinic in the region - BC). I wouldn't let some blundering twit who just wanted some experience to stick a scope in my knee.

If you really don't want the long hospital stay, then keep looking for another doctor, or keep being insistant that you don't want the long hospital stay and are not willing to pay for it.

Are you really sure you need surgery?

My surgically enhanced knee is now my good knee. My doctor knee exactly what to do and I'm glad I had it done even though it was my bad knee for about 1 or two years after the surgery.

It has been my experience that Korean doctors will not really discuss alternative procedures with you. They are great a telling you what is wrong, something I didn't always find my western doctors were good at, but as soon as I bring up something different, they simply say "We don't do that here." I can hand them research from other doctors in the hopes of getting my doctor to look into something different than he has suggested, buthe will say again "We don't do that." He won't touch the report let alone read it. Getting around cultural differences in this situation might be tricky. So I just kept going to different doctors until I found one who was willing to listen as well as tell me what was wrong.

It can be frustrating trying to get medical things taken care of in a foriegn country, but it can be done.

[tatu]

[BRawk]

It seems I am going through a similar thing with my surgeon right now. I broke a metacarpal bone in my left hand (a simple fracture with small dis placement.) The surgeon will be putting in screws and a plate, local anesthetic, and says I will be required to stay for 2-3 nights. When I asked about the price I also got the runaround but he finally settled on "probabally less than one million."
Sound familiar?
I'm not sure what to do.

[Natalia]

I can't help much, but I had this done in Australia and I stayed overnight and left first thing in the morning.

I think my stay was because of the severity of the injury before the operation though - I had splintered some of my thigh bone, and it took me a good four months to recover. However for a normal arthroscope the recovery time is not long at all.

You definitely do not need to stay for so long.

Oh, and I was definitely put under - but again this was because they were fixing and drilling holes into bones....

[dr. love]

I work at a university hospital in Seoul. I'll ask one of the professors in orthropedic surgery about the procedure and get back to you on the price and the length of stay required. Our hospital is an East West Medical Center, meaning we offer both oriental and western medicine to our patients and we're located in one of the quietest and cleanest areas of Seoul. I would recommend you visit us.

[moosehead]

I'm just curious as to whether your dr has had you in PT (phys therapy) first or plans to afterwards?

and is he a sports medicine dr? which is really the kind you want for knee injuries

I had an arth surg - actually watched the dr do it since they did do an epidural - it was pretty awesome -

at any rate, you should always have a 2nd opinion on any surgery unless it's an emergency.

oh yeah, mine was outpatient to - and lost the crutches after 3 days - was great.