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Good for Germany; Bad for Tom Cruise...
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Christianity doesn't force its members to drink Kool-Aid. But cult leaders do.


It should be pointed out that, since and including Jonestown, far more people have commited suicide because of unhappy love affairs than because of some cult leaders' orders.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
The CoS has a history of criminal harrasment against various governments...Do a google on "Scientology fair game" for further information.


Exactly. No need to Google.

I read one-and-a-half Scientology books (just cannot make it through the second one; worse than a post-Cardinal of the Kremlin Tom Clancy novel). Hubbard has categorically alleged -- and the CoS has internalized this -- that anyone or any entity who criticizes Scientology is "criminal." And the church will spare no effort to expose this criminality, thus aggresively "discrediting" any and all questioning via personal attack.

High time for people and/or govts to respond to this in kind.
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badfish



Joined: 06 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_en_mo/tom_cruise

But word that a Scientologist would play Stauffenberg has rubbed some the wrong way. Germany's government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise that takes advantage of vulnerable people, and critics maintain that one of its adherents should not be playing one of the Nazi-era's few heroes.

Stauffenberg "is to be played by an actor whose sect, through dubious methods, attempts to lure people and make them pliable," Social Democratic lawmaker Klaus Uwe Benneter said on his Web site. "This is a slap in the face to all upstanding democrats, all resistance fighters during the Third Reich, and all victims of the Scientology sect."

Stauffenberg's son Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg has spoken out against Cruise playing the role, telling the Sueddeutsche Zeitung that "he should keep his fingers off my father," and adding that he feared the movie would be "terrible kitsch."

Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung was quoted as saying such a film involving Cruise could not be made at his Ministry � the same building where Stauffenberg kept his offices and was dragged into the courtyard and shot after his plot failed.

But, Woebcken noted, the film company had not asked to film at the part of the Defense Ministry building occupied by the military, and already has preliminary permission from other agencies to film at the area where Stauffenberg's offices were, and where he was executed.
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faster



Joined: 03 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
Yosha implored:

Quote:
But this screams religious intolerance.


The only screaming is from people on the Left on this board, which rings hollow given their agnosticism and atheism. Oh, wait, I forgot, their religion is Diversity. And let me clue you in Yosha: Christianity doesn't force its members to drink Kool-Aid. But cult leaders do.

Quote:
It's the reason that bugs me; they appear to be doing this because of Cruise's religion.


That's precisely the issue at hand: the German government doesn't regard it as a religion but as a cult. So do I. And as one who resides on the Left, I would think your concern for cultural difference would take precedence. Gee, guess not.


I'm on the VERY far Left, and I both support Germany's decision as one made by a sovereign nation and one made in the best interest of its people. Scientology should not be categorized as a religion for a number of reasons, not the least being its pay-to-play system (also the way it metes out secret knowledge the further one progresses/more one pays).
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yawarakaijin



Joined: 08 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badfish wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_en_mo/tom_cruise

But word that a Scientologist would play Stauffenberg has rubbed some the wrong way. Germany's government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise that takes advantage of vulnerable people, and critics maintain that one of its adherents should not be playing one of the Nazi-era's few heroes.

Stauffenberg "is to be played by an actor whose sect, through dubious methods, attempts to lure people and make them pliable," Social Democratic lawmaker Klaus Uwe Benneter said on his Web site. "This is a slap in the face to all upstanding democrats, all resistance fighters during the Third Reich, and all victims of the Scientology sect."

Stauffenberg's son Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg has spoken out against Cruise playing the role, telling the Sueddeutsche Zeitung that "he should keep his fingers off my father," and adding that he feared the movie would be "terrible kitsch."

Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung was quoted as saying such a film involving Cruise could not be made at his Ministry � the same building where Stauffenberg kept his offices and was dragged into the courtyard and shot after his plot failed.

But, Woebcken noted, the film company had not asked to film at the part of the Defense Ministry building occupied by the military, and already has preliminary permission from other agencies to film at the area where Stauffenberg's offices were, and where he was executed.


Sounds like a good enough explanation to be. In Germany it's considered to be a an organization which takes advantage of people and goes against principles important to most Germans. Why would you have a leading proponent of that organization portray a national hero? You would'nt.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany Declares Scientology Unconstitutional
Fri Dec 7, 9:15 AM
By Louis Charbonneau

BERLIN (Reuters) - German federal and state interior ministers declared the Church of Scientology unconstitutional on Friday, opening the door for a possible ban on the organization.

Federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and 16 state interior chiefs agreed "that we do not consider Scientology an organization that is compatible with the constitution," Ehrhart Koerting, Berlin's interior minister and chairman of a ministers' conference in Berlin, told reporters.



Germany does not recognize Scientology as a religion. seeing it as a cult masquerading as a church to make money. Scientologists reject this view.

The government permits the Church of Scientology to operate in Germany as an organization, and in January it opened a six-storey headquarters in the heart of west Berlin.

Earlier this week, a Berlin district set up an office to deal with complaints about Scientology.

Koerting said Germany's domestic intelligence agencies should continue gathering information on the "legality" of Scientology's activities in Germany so that a decision could be made on what to do about it next year.

Earlier this year, the German Defense Ministry said it would not allow the makers of a movie about an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Hitler to film at German military sites because U.S. actor Tom Cruise, a Scientologist, was appearing in it.

The government later insisted that Cruise's personal beliefs had nothing to do with its initial decision to prevent him from shooting scenes at a site in the Defense Ministry complex and permitted the actor to film there.

The ministers also agreed to examine ways of cutting off funds to far-right organizations by taking a close look at state aid to foundations that supported them, Koerting said.

The far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) entered the regional parliament in the eastern state of Saxony in 2004 after winning more than 9 percent of the vote.

The NPD and another far-right party now hold seats in several state parliaments, giving them the right to financial support from the government.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/entertainment_germany_scientology_col
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
Germany Declares Scientology Unconstitutional
Fri Dec 7, 9:15 AM
By Louis Charbonneau

BERLIN (Reuters) - German federal and state interior ministers declared the Church of Scientology unconstitutional on Friday, opening the door for a possible ban on the organization.

Federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and 16 state interior chiefs agreed "that we do not consider Scientology an organization that is compatible with the constitution," Ehrhart Koerting, Berlin's interior minister and chairman of a ministers' conference in Berlin, told reporters.



Germany does not recognize Scientology as a religion. seeing it as a cult masquerading as a church to make money. Scientologists reject this view.

The government permits the Church of Scientology to operate in Germany as an organization, and in January it opened a six-storey headquarters in the heart of west Berlin.

Earlier this week, a Berlin district set up an office to deal with complaints about Scientology.

Koerting said Germany's domestic intelligence agencies should continue gathering information on the "legality" of Scientology's activities in Germany so that a decision could be made on what to do about it next year.

Earlier this year, the German Defense Ministry said it would not allow the makers of a movie about an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Hitler to film at German military sites because U.S. actor Tom Cruise, a Scientologist, was appearing in it.

The government later insisted that Cruise's personal beliefs had nothing to do with its initial decision to prevent him from shooting scenes at a site in the Defense Ministry complex and permitted the actor to film there.

The ministers also agreed to examine ways of cutting off funds to far-right organizations by taking a close look at state aid to foundations that supported them, Koerting said.

The far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) entered the regional parliament in the eastern state of Saxony in 2004 after winning more than 9 percent of the vote.

The NPD and another far-right party now hold seats in several state parliaments, giving them the right to financial support from the government.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/entertainment_germany_scientology_col


Mmmm. Where is our resident 'libertarian' to throw opprobrium at Germany for suppressing religious expression?
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Mmmm.

Where is our resident 'libertarian' to throw opprobrium at Germany for suppressing religious expression?


While i'm no fan of the notorious money-sucking Scientology k-ult Twisted Evil these recent gov't actions DO open the door to some important philosophical questions.

e.g. Shouldn't people be allowed to freely choose whatever they want to believe, where they can waste/invest their lives, time & money etc?

Look forward to the public discussion & debate Wink


Last edited by igotthisguitar on Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mmmm. Where is our resident 'libertarian' to throw opprobrium at Germany for suppressing religious expression?


While i'm no fan of Scientology Twisted Evil these recent gov't actions do open the door for some important philosophical questions.

Look forward to the public discussion & debate Wink


Actually, I agree. Germany is coming down too hard. This is not how you deal with a fradulent religion: you humiliate it, not outlaw it.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Actually, I agree. Germany is coming down too hard.

This is not how you deal with a fradulent religion: you humiliate it, not outlaw it.


Scientology: Blackmailing Celebrities To Control Them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0P2Nd3O0Qc&feature=related

Andrew Morton's Tom Cruise Biography Controversy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF3Jg-FiZRA&feature=related
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the fact that the movie is about a plot to kill Hitler has something to do with it

YoshaMazov wrote:
While I hold no affection for Scientology, preventing Cruise to act simply because of his faith seems to be rather regressive. So what if it's a crackpot "religion?" Should Cruise not enjoy the same rights afforded to followers of more traditional religions?

the founding fathers of the american constitution knew of european habits to supress freedoms
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mistermasan



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like the scientologists gotta bribe the right german bureaucrats or "lobby' better.

who needs kool-aid when there is a never ending 2,000 year old supply of blood and meat?

what was tom's last movie that you enjoyed? he's more done than robin williams.
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