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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| mistermasan wrote: |
well...i am from ilinois-so i don't want obama. he isn't really do the job he was elected to do by us the first time and he is too young. and no, i won't vote for clinton. if we wanted political dynasties we shoulda stuck w/ england.
that stated...this wil be anoyher round of voting for the least bad candidate. if it comes down to huck or mitt or giuliani i cannot in good faith see myself supporting any of them.
clinton in a landslide. |
supporting giulliani.  And huckabee? I think he is a good person but his proposal to abolish the income tax and replace with a big ass sales tax is rather crazy. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| But, remember, Gore and Kerry were significantly better than Bush on nearly every level, yet Bush still got in. |
Maybe. Maybe not. I remember supporting Gore in 2000. I also remember wishing he did not come off as so unenergetic and boring. He was not even half the leader he was when he spoke on this day 2006, for example.
I also remember not liking Kerry at all. Voting against W. Bush was my only motivation in 2004. Hard to win an election when so many -- and I believe many shared my motives -- cannot really recognize anything positive to vote for on the Democratic side.
However you may stand on this, given that some Republicans might vote Democrat and vice versa, if they could be so persuaded (and not bullied, yelled at, scared into, or shamed into voting Democrat or Republican, however the case may be), what lessons do you think Democrats should have taken away from these losses that they ought to apply to Nov. 2008...? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Aside from the 'party in power fatigue factor' that you get at the end of any 8-year administration, this time you have a party that is perceived to have been incompetent in handling Katrina, started an expensive and unpopular war, war fatigue itself--this one has outlasted World War II, and fear of a severe recession at the end of an administration that started with a budget surplus.
And what does the Party offer: a) a Baptist preacher, b) a Mormon, c) a 72-year old war veteran from the wrong war and d) an equally elderly dude offering peculiar ideas.
Yes, the Party has painted itself into a corner: pro-war, fiscally irresponsible, religious oddness and a home for flakey ideas. |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| but the loyal opposition has little to offer but more of the same except higher taxes. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| this time you have a party that is perceived to have been incompetent in handling Katrina, started an expensive and unpopular war... |
People tend to link these events to W. Bush or the entire Republican Party? And are you reporting something you know or hoping to create and cultivate such opinions? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| this time you have a party that is perceived to have been incompetent in handling Katrina, started an expensive and unpopular war... |
People tend to link these events to W. Bush or the entire Republican Party? And are you reporting something you know or hoping to create and cultivate such opinions? |
Yeah, I think most people associate Bush with that, not so much the Republicans. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| I remember a few years ago the talk was of a permanent Republican majority and how college kids were more fiscally conservative etc etc. The winds of change. |
I remember reading that too, although more about religion + civil liberties. Something like 50% of h.s seniors thought it was OK for the president to censor the news if he thought it was a vital national interest. And something like 78% of all Americans believe in angels (!78%!).
I'd like to see a study of the studies. That would be so meta. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mistermasan wrote: |
| but the loyal opposition has little to offer but more of the same except higher taxes. |
Except for positions on abortion, social welfare, the war on terror, the War in Iraq, gay rights, etc. you're right! Let's all move to Taxachussets and drink peeno gricheeo! Har har! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| People tend to link these events to W. Bush or the entire Republican Party? And are you reporting something you know or hoping to create and cultivate such opinions? |
| Quote: |
| Yeah, I think most people associate Bush with that, not so much the Republicans. |
As both of you are more or less Republicans, are you asking because you think or you hope it is not true? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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No. In this case, I am asking because I do not know. And I thought you might have seen something on this that I have not. I also wanted to ask you, as someone hostile to the Republican Party, if you were sure that you knew this and were not merely wishing it.
Honest questions in both instances. |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| regardless of who wins, the troops are staying, gay rights shall continue to evolve in the public consciousness, the war on terror will continue, taxes will continue to go up (baby boomers retiring) and abortion shall continue to be legal untill it is no longer needed and made obsolete by pharmaceutical advances in most cases. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| People tend to link these events to W. Bush or the entire Republican Party? And are you reporting something you know or hoping to create and cultivate such opinions? |
| Quote: |
| Yeah, I think most people associate Bush with that, not so much the Republicans. |
As both of you are more or less Republicans, are you asking because you think or you hope it is not true? |
Honestly, I hope you're right. if people are that angry at the republicans, maybe the republicans will try to reform themselves and abandon their attachment to the evangelicals. Unlikely, but we can all hope  . |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| A major poll out last week had McCain leading Clinton nationally by 4%, while Clinton topped all other Republican candidates(can't seem to find the link as the news cycle moves so fast). The key for the GOP may be McCain who, if he can keep his age a non-issue, will be strong against the Democratic nominee. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Aside from the 'party in power fatigue factor' that you get at the end of any 8-year administration, this time you have a party that is perceived to have been incompetent in handling Katrina, started an expensive and unpopular war, war fatigue itself--this one has outlasted World War II, and fear of a severe recession at the end of an administration that started with a budget surplus.
And what does the Party offer: a) a Baptist preacher, b) a Mormon, c) a 72-year old war veteran from the wrong war and d) an equally elderly dude offering peculiar ideas.
Yes, the Party has painted itself into a corner: pro-war, fiscally irresponsible, religious oddness and a home for flakey ideas. |
Aside from higher taxes, the Democrats basically have: 1) A woman who stayed in her sham of a marriage so she could someday run for President, 2) A wet-behind-the-ears Black man who has as much experience running something big as the Grease Monkey manager, 3) A trial attorney (need I say more?).
I like the Republicans chances. Not because they have done a bang-up job the last 8 years, but because, like '04, the Dems have no one worth considering running for the office. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mistermasan wrote: |
| regardless of who wins, the troops are staying, gay rights shall continue to evolve in the public consciousness, the war on terror will continue, taxes will continue to go up (baby boomers retiring) and abortion shall continue to be legal untill it is no longer needed and made obsolete by pharmaceutical advances in most cases. |
Unless of course it is Ron Paul, in which case troops will come home, the wars will end, taxes will go down, and the impending economic disaster will be greatly ameliorated.
Did I mention that we will even get back many lost civil liberties? |
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