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The Holocaust Industry
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: The Holocaust Industry Reply with quote

Beached
The Coney Island exile of a scholar who would be Noam Chomsky, but isn�t.
By Ben Harris Published Dec 10, 2007


(Photo: Jeremy Liebman)

At 54, Norman Finkelstein is pretty much back where he started.

This summer, the leftist scholar�who made a name for himself in 2000 with his book The Holocaust Industry, in which he called Jewish leaders a �... repellent gang of plutocrats, hoodlums, and hucksters� intent on extorting war reparations from European governments�lost his job as assistant professor of political science at DePaul University. Fortunately, he kept the lease on his late father�s threadbare rent-stabilized apartment, on Ocean Parkway, and there he�s retreated.

�It�s like death,� Finkelstein says. �You keep saying you�re going to die, but you never really come to grips with it. And I can see I�m not going to get another job. I haven�t yet fully absorbed it.�

His days are now spent in solitary scholarly pursuits; his bookshelves buckle under the weight of tomes by Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky. Notes of support from his students sit on a piano; there�s a photo of him and Noam Chomsky (�my closest friend�) bare-chested on the beach at Cape Cod.

He was a Maoist revolutionary in his youth. By his own account, his academic career was bedeviled from the start by his politics: It took him thirteen years to wrest his doctorate from Princeton, since no faculty member would agree to advise him on his thesis, an analysis of Zionism. When he finally did earn the degree, none would write him a recommendation. He went on to take a series of adjunct posts�at Brooklyn College, Hunter, and NYU�rarely earning more than $20,000 a year.

At DePaul, where he arrived six years ago, his situation improved. But the success of The Holocaust Industry, which was translated into over two dozen languages and was a best seller in Germany, raised his profile, and the critics mobilized. Harvard�s Alan Dershowitz waged a fierce campaign against him, preparing a dossier of Finkelstein�s �clearest and most egregious instances of dishonesty.� Still, his department, and the college, recommended him for tenure. But the university�s promotion-and-tenure board voted 4-3 against him, and DePaul�s president refused to overturn the decision.

Afterward, Finkelstein says, he lost seventeen pounds. �People saw me wasting away,� he says. A student group held a hunger strike; Chomsky and others defended him. One of his colleagues made him a mix CD with tracks like �I Will Survive� and �What�s Goin� On?� �I�m an old fan of the Negro spirituals,� Finkelstein says. �I was going around singing to myself, �Were you there when they crucified my Lord? Were you there?� That�s how I felt. I was being crucified by the end.�

The son of survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and Nazi death camps, Finkelstein was raised in Borough Park and later Mill Basin, where he attended high school a few years behind Chuck Schumer. His parents became atheists after the war.

His new building remains heavily Jewish. A friend of Finkelstein�s father once approached him in the lobby and urged him to tone it down. �Norman,� he told him, �you�re getting older, and all the old-age homes are owned by Jews. If you keep this up, you�re not going to have anywhere to go.�

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/41838/
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, yes, another self-loathing Jew ala Bobby Fischer.

Quote:
�It�s like death,� Finkelstein says. �You keep saying you�re going to die, but you never really come to grips with it. And I can see I�m not going to get another job. I haven�t yet fully absorbed it.�


Yeah, reality isn't exactly the strong suit of leftwing nutbar profs. Maybe he can keep playing back Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" until it finally sinks in.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ah, yes, another self-loathing Jew


A self-loathing Jew whose research on the holocaust has been praised by Raul Hilberg?

Quote:
Now Finkelstein had a second point, which, in my opinion, was one hundred percent correct and that is that the response to the issue of the Swiss banks and German industry, which had coincided during the War, was not only coercive on the part of the Jews who mobilized, but also on the part of all the insurance commissioners, the Senate, the House, and the critical committees. The only thing they could not break through was to the courts, which still have independence. So they lost at court, but they threatened people like Alan Hevesi in New York. They could make threats because Swiss banks wanted to expand here. For Finkelstein, this was naked extortion and I�m not sure who agreed with him except for me and I said so openly. In fact, I said so to the press in maybe seven countries.

The press did not expect my answer. The World Jewish Congress was led by a man who was appeared to be from his own autobiographical statements to be totally, not even average, but like a child almost. What this tycoon, who took over the World Jewish Congress, was saying was totally preposterous. The claims lawyers, joined by the World Jewish Congress, made an incredible display of totally inappropriate behavior.

Now when he talks about the Arabs, some Jews feel that he is also anti-Zionist, that he is anti-Israel; that he seems to always emphasize the suffering of the Arabs. I do not join him in this particular venture because I have my own view, but you cannot say he is altogether wrong either. Would you like to be an Arab citizen in Israel? Think of the doors that are closed. You may eat better and have a better income than if you lived in a slum in Cairo. The great irony is that the economic condition of Israeli Arabs is considerably better than the proletariat in some other Arab countries, but a person needs something more. A person needs a feeling of dignity. Think of the security check points. It is a life that certainly something ought to be done about it in one way or another. This particular battle cannot be fought forever. It cannot be. The Israelis will tire of it. The Israelis will simply tire of mistrusting people. It is not possible to go on this way forever. Finkelstein has the corner on the germ of correct vision in these matters because he is pretty sharp. More often than not, especially with regard to these other matters like Goldhagen and the Swiss banks he has been right.


http://tinyurl.com/26vg5n
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
Ah, yes, another self-loathing Jew ... ala Bobby Fischer.


Self-loathing? Rolling Eyes

He's anti-Zionist NOT anti "jew" Stevie boy.

Try again.

( p.s. Finkelstein's work has been praised by many, Jew & non-"jew" alike )
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
Ah, yes, another self-loathing Jew ala Bobby Fischer.


If I question or criticise British government policy in anyway, am I then a self-loathing Anglo-Saxon?

He dared to stick his head above the parapet and was deemed not politically correct enough for the cowards who caved in before Dershowitz. Quite a disgraceful affair. So much for academic freedom in the US.

Quote:
Academic Freedom is the belief that the freedom of inquiry by students and faculty members is essential to the mission of the academy. They argue that academic communities are repeatedly targeted for repression due to their ability to shape and control the flow of information. When scholars attempt to teach or communicate ideas or facts that are inconvenient to external political groups or to authorities, they may find themselves targeted for public vilification, job loss, imprisonment, or even death.
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Bird:

I'm not familiar with the particulars of his case but some of his comments go well beyond the pale and cannot be dismissed as merely anti-Zionist. There is a persistent "breed" of intellectual Jewry that is self-loathing just as there is a strong strain of Anti-Semitism in the Anglo-Russo-Franco criticism of Israeli policy. That doesn't mean to say that anyone who's not pro-Israel is a bigot but you don't have to scratch the surface much to find a long history of it in those particular locales.

As for academic freedom in general, well, I just hope you're not one of those British snobs who still believes academia in England is without peer. Most suppression of academic discourse in the Western academy occurs in the classrooms of the Far Left (like this guy) by limiting required reading for course to a particular ideological mindset. But then you won't hear The Guardian or Mother Jones ever lament this widespread reality.
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in_seoul_2003



Joined: 24 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
Big Bird:

There is a persistent "breed" of intellectual Jewry that is self-loathing...


Prove it. Name a self-loathing Jew and what makes him/her a self-loathing Jew and then we can determine whether what that Jew has said is an aspect of self-loathing or a 'legitimate' commentary on an issue.
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mistermasan



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i read that book some years back. interesting read.
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The phenomenon of the "self-loathing" Jew has been around for quite a while.

One primer on the subject can be found in Paul Johnson's excellent A HISTORY OF THE JEWS.
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yawarakaijin



Joined: 08 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the term self loathing jew seems to have incendiary connotations. Why is it that the term self loathing christian, self loathing muslim or buddhist hasn't appeared in our lexicon?

I'm not going to pass judgement on or analyse those who feel it necessary to use the term (in more than one thread) but I personally find it unnecessary.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mosley wrote:
The phenomenon of the "self-loathing" Jew has been around for quite a while.

One primer on the subject can be found in Paul Johnson's excellent A HISTORY OF THE JEWS.


Seems to be more of a LABEL than anything else.

LABEL it first & the "phenomenon" will surely follow Idea

btw - define the term "jew".
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out some CREDIBLE sources, like the one I listed above, and then get back to me, Grand Mufti....
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Credible sources?

Grand Mufti? Huh?
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:

He dared to stick his head above the parapet and was deemed not politically correct enough for the cowards who caved in before Dershowitz. Quite a disgraceful affair. So much for academic freedom in the US.


And the UK!:
Quote:


Freedom of speech row as talk on Islamic extremists is banned

By John Steele
Last Updated: 1:28am GMT 15/03/2007

A leading university has been accused of "selling out" academic freedom of speech by scrapping a talk on links between the Nazis and Islamic anti-semitism after allegedly receiving emails from Muslims protesting about the event.

Matthias K�ntzel, a German author and political scientist who specialises in the threat of Islamic fundamentalism, was told yesterday by the University of Leeds that a talk scheduled for yesterday evening, and a two-day workshop, on Hitler's Legacy: Islamic Anti-semitism in the Middle East, had been cancelled because of security fears.

In a statement yesterday, two academics in the Leeds German department, which had organised the event, claimed the university had bowed "to Muslim protests". Dr K�ntzel said he had given similar addresses around the world and there had been no problems.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/15/nislam15.xml
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html
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