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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Do Koreans offend you with their English? |
Yes, because they make me feel like a foreigner. |
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No. I don't feel offended. |
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[ 123 ] |
Yes, because they make me feel used. |
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[ 12 ] |
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Total Votes : 149 |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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"Welcome to the Miriam Ferguson Wegukin Award Ceremony. As most of you know, this ceremony is held every year to honor those wegukin's who have made the greatest contribution to our cherished stereotypes.
"Our first category is in speaking. Our nominees are Aaron Aardvark for calling flirting with Korean girls by saying 'oo-la-la, bonjour, mademoiselle,' Betty Boop for answering every utterance in Korean with "no comprendo," and our winner is Carolina Catfish for calling up the translation service whenever she had to say 'hello.' Let's give all these wonderful people a big hand.
"Our next category is in reading. Our nominees are David Donald Doo for confusing niun's for L's, Eddy Eggbert for confusing kiuk's for sixteenth rests, Frankie Frankfurter for using mium's for check boxes, Gertrude Gurgle for parking in front of 주차금지 signs, and our winner is Harvey Hershey for walking into the wrong room in a 목욕탕. Let's have a hearty round of applause.
"Next is our listening category. Our nominees are Ichabob Ignatius for requiring an interpreter every time anyone said 컴퓨터, 프린터, or 스캐너. Jerry Jordan for correcting a child's pronunciation when he thought child was trying to call him a 'barber,' and our winner is Karl Kruger for creating a disaster a child in his class had to go to the 화장실. Again, I think all these contestants deserve a hand.
"Next we have the self-reliance category. Our nominees are Lola Lopp for calling her director every time she had to put in a light bulb, Melvin Montana for asking for help in reading a subway map printed in romaja, and our winner is Nelson Newhart for getting lost between the school and his apartment three floors up. Here again, let's show our appreciation.
"And now for our geography category. Our nominees are Olive Oberlin for confusing North and South Korea on a map, Peter Pepper for not being able to find the East Sea on a map, Quentin Quincy for trying to buy a train ticket to Tokyo, and our winner is Rosy Robin Ross for looking for Korea on map of Africa. Let's give these fine people a warm round of applause.
"And we certainly must not forget the culture category. Our runners-up are Sammy Slick for trying to buy stationery supplies at a drugstore, Thomas Tallis for celebrating Peppero Day on the wrong calendar day, Ursula Upshaw for celebrating Chuseok on the third Thursday in November, and our winner is Vera Violet Vinn for trying to learn the dance steps to the Kim Bop. Let's show these fine people how much we appreciate them.
"Last but not least is the diplomacy category. Our leading contestants are Warren Wiggins for teaching 종이접기 and calling it おりがみ, Xavier Xerxes for wearing a Santa Claus outfit and passing out gifts in a Buddhist temple, Yolanda Yorgenson for skiing down burial mounds in the wintertime, and our winner is Zabrina Zalman for bragging about Theodore Roosevelt's role in the Portsmouth Conference. Let's tell these people how special they are.
"We thank all of you for being here this evening. We hope to see all of you again next year when we award another fine group of wegukin's. Before we leave, though, let's give all of our contestants another round of applause." |
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CasperTheFriendlyGhost
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I guess it's a valid question, but shame on those who voted yes. the whole point of us being here (and this is supposed to be a cultural exchange) is to raise the level of English in the country. Is there some magical way of being a better English speaker without speaking english? |
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SuperHero

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Location: Superhero Hideout
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Tomato,
Good job using names from Dr. Seuss books, but get over yourself already. Stop being a freaking language nazi. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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CasperTheFriendlyGhost wrote: |
I guess it's a valid question, but shame on those who voted yes. the whole point of us being here (and this is supposed to be a cultural exchange) . . . |
You sure could have fooled me.
I thought they had a perfect right to learn our language but we had no right to learn theirs.
Quote: |
is to raise the level of English in the country. |
This comes as a big shock to me, because I thought we were only responsible for speaking English in the English classroom.
Psychologists resent being approached for free counselling, lawyers resent being approached for free legal advice, why can't we resent being approached for free English practice?
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Is there some magical way of being a better English speaker without speaking english? |
Not that I know of.
Nor do I know of some magical way of being a better Korean speaker without speaking Korean.
Russians, Indonesians, and Japanese don't have to have their foreign language education suppressed out of courtesy to those who infantilize them, and I don't see why we aren't as good as Russians, Indonesians, and Japanese. |
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shantaram

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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No, I don't feel offended. I've read the arguments of various forum-members on this topic before. I still don't understand it, and I never will- how can you go to Korea to teach English and be offended that people speak English to you? Whether inside or outside the classroom, if you are a professional you will take this sort of thing in your stride. If you are a student of the Korean language, you should be able to have that identity and not let it dominate your teacher personality. If you are primarily a student of Korean language, you should surely be culturally aware enough to know that Koreans will identify anyone who looks different as a foreigner, and will probably speak to them in English. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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shantaram wrote: |
you should surely be culturally aware enough to know that Koreans will identify anyone who looks different as a foreigner, and will probably speak to them in English. |
I'm sure that most Black people are culturally aware enough to know that many White people look down on them, but that doesn't mean they should take it lying down.
I'm sure that most women are culturally aware enough to know that many men look down on them, but that doesn't mean they should take it lying down.
On the contrary, I think it is the responsibility of discriminated minority members to fight back.
And I am determined to take my share of the responsibility.
It is partly because of Uncle Toms that discrimination against Blacks has perpetuated.
It is partly because of Betty Boops that discrimination against women has perpetuated.
It is partly because of Shantarams that discrimination against wegukin's has perpetuated. |
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shantaram

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure that you're paranoid enough to believe that every Korean person is looking down upon you. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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No, not every Korean, just every Korean who speaks to me in English.
Don't exaggerate. |
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shantaram

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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If you think that every Korean who speaks English to you is looking down on you, that's paranoia. |
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hepcat

Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I feel gratitude and admiration whem Koreans speak English because my Korean vocab is about ten words.
I think my ability to learn new languages, never strong, is growing worse. My GPA was one of the highest at my uni. but I almost failed 2nd year Spanish. Luckily, my instructor had a crush on me. My French isn't too bad though. Korean=in one ear, out the other. On the plus side, it makes me patient with my struggling students, and amazed at my star pupils.
Good on 'em for learning the global language. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Do you feel offended when Koreans speak English to you? |
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lostandforgotten wrote: |
I personally feel offended when Koreans speak English to me because
1. My Korean is better than their English
2. They make me feel like a foreigner. Like being picked out of a crowd because you're a foreigner type of feeling.
3. I feel used.
How about you? |
lostandforgotten, you are one retarded gyopo.
So what? My Korean is better than almost every Korean's English that I've met, but I sure as hell don't get offended if and when someone chooses to speak to me in English. Sometimes, a co-worker will say something in English because he's trying to be funny and it's good for a laugh...or because they want to impress me cuz I'm their boss or cuz they want to test out their English on me. I don't feel used at all.
And no, other than when I'm kidding around with my co-workers at the office, no one else addresses me in English...except the Korean Air stewardesses for some reason, who seem to be able to pick out a gyopo from a mile away. Anyway, I take a cab to and from work every day and none of the cabbies address me in English...neither does the lady who sells me duk bokki every other day. I obviously blend in with the natives...maybe you don't?
Last edited by Freakstar on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hepcat

Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I should add that Koreans rarely speak English to me. Really rarely. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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SuperHero and shantaram, please be patient.
I am learning, slowly but surely, to tolerate the Korean attitude toward foreigners.
Today, I made a weekend trip to the children's room at the public library in Chuncheon--one of my favorite places, because the Miriam Ferguson sympathizers have had little success in brainwashing the smaller children.
I read some books to a small child.
The child's mother was surprised, probably because she didn't know that there were foreigners who could read Korean.
She chuckled gently while I read to the child, and she reinforced me by repeating some of the words which I read.
That bothered me somewhat, but I was polite to her because she spoke to me only in Korean--as every Korean outside of English class should.
The child's mother noticed that I had a book in English, which I intended to check out, and she asked me to read that book to the child.
I carefully explained that I already have to speak English Monday through Friday, so I would like to have weekends free to speak Korean.
She had never been in my shoes, so she didn't realize that.
Throughout this this entire interchange, the child's mother never spoke a word to me in English.
Her attitude may still be in the phony liberal stage, and she may still be a long way from regarding wegukin's as real people, but she made a giant leap from the Miriam Ferguson level, so she made a step in the right direction.
In turn, I learned that Koreans have never been in my shoes, so they don't realize that my responsibility for English conversation practice is not something which I want to carry with me on a 24-7 basis.
Don't get me wrong, now. When it comes to 캔 아이 헬프 유 vampires, I can't stand to even look at them, much less speak to them. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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According to many Korean Anglophones, we should not speak Korean because that entails making mistakes, and it is wrong to make mistakes.
They would probably have us believe that Saint Peter is up there tallying our mistakes, intent on denying us entry to the Kingdom of Heaven if the demerits go over the maximum.
My response is that we learn from those mistakes, and the benefit therefore outweighs the loss.
Some of you may be so thoroughly brainwashed by all this Miriam Ferguson propaganda that you don't believe me. In such case, I'll give you an example to prove my point:
A woman was standing in line at the bus ticket counter and dropped a coin.
She didn't notice, nobody else noticed, I did not have time to look any words up, and I didn't have a bilingual babysitter protecting me.
This left me no choice but to commit the heinous offense which no well-bred Miriam Ferguson sympathizer would ever want me to commit:
I had to walk up to a Korean and speak to her in Korean!
The best I could do was "동장을 떨어졌습니다."
She said "오" and picked up the coin.
On the bus ride home, I consulted my dictionary and found that the word for coin is 동전, whereas 동장 means "village chief."
The transitive verb for drop is 떨어뜨리다, whereas 떨어지다 is the intransitive verb.
Saint Peter saw the whole thing, so I got 2 more demerits.
Last edited by tomato on Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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tomato wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, now. When it comes to 캔 아이 헬프 유 vampires, I can't stand to even look at them, much less speak to them. |
Tomato, why do you write "can I help you" in Hangul? When you are speaking Korean, are you thinking and speaking in English or in Korean? When they are speaking English, why do you denigrate their attempts to speak English by writing it in Hangul?
I am sure that you don't teach your students that the way to say and spell "can" is 캔, you're so set on EnglishEnglishEnglish classrooms. And surely you wouldn't teach them that the entire English phrase was written in Hangul, right?
I don't know, Tomato, I used to understand your ranting, but I've been here less than two years and have no real shortage of people willing to speak Korean with me. Kids, friends, adults, old men, a Pakistani man who sells socks by my school (no shit--we had a 20 minute conversation in Korean the first time we met before switching to English), people at the stores I frequent... None whatsoever. Usually, if they want to speak English, a kind, humble, "Oh, I am studying Korean, but it's so hard. Will you help me with..." works. Boom, we're speaking Korean.
Hell, when I'm studying on the subway I get help even when I don't ask for it. A slightly confused look, a cocked head and SOMEONE is helping me. I once had 5 people helping me at once on a packed line seven train. One of my fondest memories here.
You know those people who only seem to date crazy people and bitch about how crazy men/women are? Sometimes you've gotta wonder WHO really has the problem... |
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