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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Some of this is very good. Some of this is not so good.
Congrats to RP on battling regulations, pledging to freeze discretionary spending, wanting to ax SarbOx, and for his sober and well-placed tax cuts.
Double congrats to RP for keeping the IRS.
I'll agree to disagree with the Estates tax. Such taxes are incentive for creations of trusts and donative transfers while people are still alive. Also, the Estates tax encourages donative transfers in one's Estate. Calling it 'the death tax' is misleading, as the Estates tax helps stimulate transfer of wealth while the rich are still alive.
Here's where I'm disappointed:
We have absolutely nothing on energy. We have absolutely nothing on health care.
I give the plan a solid B. It's good but too incomplete for an A grade. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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do you understand what 'isolationism' means? most of the countries of the world don't have troops stationed all over the world, so by your logic, they are isolationists...
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I'm using the definition that was used in the 20's and 30's. You can use a different one if you want to. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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* Return Value to Our Money. Legalize gold and silver as a competing currency.
o Level the long-term boom and bust business cycle by passing H.R. 4683, which would repeal provisions of the federal criminal code relating to issuance coins of gold, silver, or other metal for use as current money and making or possessing likenesses of such coins. |
That's been done already. Milton Friedman's view was actually eliminate the fed and just have a computer program increase the money supply by 4% every year. Friedman noticed over the last 20 years the fed has pretty much done that. Result: very low inflation, steady growth, very short recessions of mild severity.
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Milton Friedman: I've always been in favor of abolishing the Federal Reserve and substituting a machine program that would keep the quantity of money going up at a steady rate.
Russ Roberts: And over the last 20 years or so, they've approximated that.
Milton Friedman: Come closer to approximating it. Absolutely.
Russ Roberts: And I would argue, and I assume you would as well, that the relative stability of the U.S. economy over the last 20 years is a reflection of that steady growth in the money supply.
Milton Friedman: I think there's no doubt at all.
Russ Roberts: The non-erratic path.
Milton Friedman: It's a golden period. It's a period in which you had declining inflation but a fairly steady rate, a steady level. You had only three recessions, all of them brief, all of them mild. I don't believe you can find another 20-year period in American history. But it's interesting to note that so far as the international acceptance of monetary control is concerned, it was started by the Bank of New Zealand, not by the Federal Reserve Bank. |
http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2006/Friedmantranscript.html
And hedge against inflation. Isn't that the stock market? At the end of the day what good does it do the economy if everyone is sitting on gold? Seems to me it's far better if people are investing. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a bit disappointed that it falls short of calling for the complete abolition of the Federal Reserve. Why pay billions of dollars in interest to FR bankers when the government could issue the money itself interest-free?
It also does not mention the abolition of the IRS which we know he supports so maybe this is a a toned-down or first step version of what's in store.
Also hopefully he is not calling for feezing defense spending at current levels because he wants to lower it.
While imperfect, it is a great start. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
And hedge against inflation. Isn't that the stock market? At the end of the day what good does it do the economy if everyone is sitting on gold? Seems to me it's far better if people are investing. |
That's my view also. I'd rather have my money backed by actual goods and services that I can actually use. I don't see how gold adds any real practicality unless someone makes a building out of gold.  |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| That's been done already. |
No, it hasn't. The Liberty Dollar was crushed.
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Milton Friedman's view was actually eliminate the fed and just have a computer program increase the money supply by 4% every year. |
And ultimately changed his mind because the Fed needs flexibility and information can be faulty. And picking a number is silly. High growth and low growth (and unbalanced growth, like in Canuckistan) all require different rates. The computer idea was interesting, but dropped.
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Friedman noticed over the last 20 years the fed has pretty much done that. Result: very low inflation, steady growth, very short recessions of mild severity.
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The inflation wasn't low in the late 70's early 80's, and it is not low now. The CPI index is politically directed nonsense. Inflation is bad, and so is low growth. The Fed has caused Japan-style stagflation. Read Krugman on how this is nearly impossible to get out of.
The Fed has been printing money like a drunken sailor but Bretton Woods 2 meant that inflation could be kept low regardless of how much money was produced. This inflation is now coming home. I wouldn't get too committed to your opinions just yet. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Outside of the internet community? Who is Ron Paul, again? |
Internet "community"?
Is that anything like the global "community"?
What of the intelligence "community"?
Black, white, or gay "community"?
Any other "community" tagged abstractions you think you can come up with?
re: the success of Ron Paul, let's not forget either "It takes a village"
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
And hedge against inflation. Isn't that the stock market? At the end of the day what good does it do the economy if everyone is sitting on gold? Seems to me it's far better if people are investing. |
That's my view also. I'd rather have my money backed by actual goods and services that I can actually use. I don't see how gold adds any real practicality unless someone makes a building out of gold. |
No.
In the same way that Wal-Mart can not unilaterally raise prices because of competition the Fed needs competition when debasing currency. Very, very few people understand what an equity market it, and how to properly invest in one. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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do you understand what 'isolationism' means? most of the countries of the world don't have troops stationed all over the world, so by your logic, they are isolationists...
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I'm using the definition that was used in the 20's and 30's. You can use a different one if you want to. |
Not having bases is isolationist? Ron Paul says trade, talk and make friends. That isn't isolation, it is peaceful engagement. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Go here for msnbc.com Republican debate. Yes, RP is in it too.
I'll have to get back to you later Peel, just hope we can both agree that the Huckster hasn't got a clue about Economics.
Edit: I really wish the Fed would utilize more restraint in the money supply. However, to me basing a currency completely off some arbitrary metal seems to really restrict a currency. So maybe there can be a mix of certain commodities but nothing too drastic.
Last edited by Pluto on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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* Reduce Overseas Military Commitments. Our bases and troops should be on our soil, bolstering our economy.
o It's time to stop subsidizing our business competitors in Europe, Japan and South Korea.
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Those two sentences are not very clear. Is he calling for a withdrawal of all US troops from everywhere? If so, that amounts to isolationism.
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| Repeal or Remove Costly and Unnecessary Federal Regulations. |
I for one am FOR costly and unnecessary regulations. The more costly and unnecessary the better. 
Your boy is not showing much courage here. Let him be candid and list some of the regulations he wants to eliminate. |
Nearly every country in the world only has troops on it's own soil. Are all those countries isolationist? Or is the U.S. occupationalist? |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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MSN held a text message poll after the Republican debate tonight and Ron Paul came in second with 40%. Romney, the candidate that most agreed actually won the debate, won with 41%. Given that Romney, and presumably his supporters, have the cash to afford the text message, what are Paul's people doing? Wouldn't that money be better spent on his defunct campaign?
I actually felt bad for Paul. He didn't seem to get asked as many questions from the moderators as the other candidates, and when they opened it up so that the candidates could ask each other questions they all ignored Paul. And his eyebrows looked crazy. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
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| That's been done already. |
No, it hasn't. The Liberty Dollar was crushed. |
No. The makers were arrested for money laundering and wire fraud. Anyway that "that's been done already" I refer to the boom/bust reduction. Done without some alternative currency.
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| Milton Friedman's view was actually eliminate the fed and just have a computer program increase the money supply by 4% every year. |
And ultimately changed his mind because the Fed needs flexibility and information can be faulty. And picking a number is silly. High growth and low growth (and unbalanced growth, like in Canuckistan) all require different rates. The computer idea was interesting, but dropped. |
No. He's dead now but I just listened to a podcast from last 2006, shortly before he died where he was arguing the very thing. Check the url I referenced.
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Friedman noticed over the last 20 years the fed has pretty much done that. Result: very low inflation, steady growth, very short recessions of mild severity.
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The inflation wasn't low in the late 70's early 80's, and it is not low now. The CPI index is politically directed nonsense. Inflation is bad, and so is low growth. The Fed has caused Japan-style stagflation. Read Krugman on how this is nearly impossible to get out of. |
First, check that url. Second, 2008-20 = 1988. I don't see the 1970s in that math. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| No. The makers were arrested for money laundering and wire fraud. Anyway that "that's been done already". |
The federal charges filed were dropped and no additional charges filed, yet the money (gold) has not, and according to the Mint, will not, be returned. The Mint also said anybody trying to use the Liberty Dollar would face 5 years in prison. Why would that be?
The charges were manufactured and the move political.
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| I refer to the boom/bust reduction. Done without some alternative currency. |
You think the boom/bust cycle has been reduced? Do you watch markets? This is the largest bust, likely, since the depression. We're just getting started. The inflationary fundamentals of fiat currency were masked by Bretton Woods 2, the global dollar standard. Do you understand that?
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No. He's dead now but I just listened to a podcast from last 2006, shortly before he died where he was arguing the very thing. Check the url I referenced. |
I read a monetary history of the United States. In it, he posits the argument but only to make a larger more metaphoric point that slow and steady wins the race. I have listened to that link, a few days after it came out. I have never, ever heard that argument made in serious conversation. Monetary police has to be flexible, and this is exactly WHY America has the Fed.
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First, check that url. Second, 2008-20 = 1988. I don't see the 1970s in that math.
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1) Inflation is becoming a serious problem now.
2) The inflation has been kept in check not because of the Fed but because of Bretton Woods 2. That is, in spite of the Fed.
3) In the early-mid 80's the way in which inflation was calculated was changed to reflect the view that economic fundamentals don't matter but the perception of the fundamentals. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
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| No. The makers were arrested for money laundering and wire fraud. Anyway that "that's been done already". |
The federal charges filed were dropped and no additional charges filed, yet the money (gold) has not, and according to the Mint, will not, be returned. The Mint also said anybody trying to use the Liberty Dollar would face 5 years in prison. Why would that be? |
If you look at the mint's page on the liberty dollar they take exception to people trying to pass it as real currency.
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| I refer to the boom/bust reduction. Done without some alternative currency. |
You think the boom/bust cycle has been reduced? Do you watch markets? This is the largest bust, likely, since the depression. We're just getting started. The inflationary fundamentals of fiat currency were masked by Bretton Woods |
Again, I point out what Milton Friedman pointed out about the last 20 years. I don't know what kind of recession is next. I'm sure people predicted doom in 1987 when the market lost 25% of its value over night. Either you will be right or I will be right. Time will tell.
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| I have never, ever heard that argument made in serious conversation. |
Define serious conversation. I've pointed out shortly before his death he was talking about it.
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| 1) Inflation is becoming a serious problem now. |
Really?
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| 2) The inflation has been kept in check not because of the Fed but because of Bretton Woods 2. That is, in spite of the Fed. |
Again, that's not what Milton Friedman has said. Inflation has been kept in check because central banking has realized when they increase the money supply, they create inflation. |
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