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ODDITIES OF THE JFK ASSASSINATION
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 1960 presidential election campaign John F. Kennedy argued for a new Civil Rights Act. After the election it was discovered that over 70 per cent of the African American vote went to Kennedy. However, during the first two years of his presidency, Kennedy failed to put forward his promised legislation.

The Civil Rights bill was brought before Congress in 1963 and in a speech on television on 11th June, Kennedy pointed out that: "The Negro baby born in America today, regardless of the section of the nation in which he is born, has about one-half as much chance of completing high school as a white baby born in the same place on the same day; one third as much chance of completing college; one third as much chance of becoming a professional man; twice as much chance of becoming unemployed; about one-seventh as much chance of earning $10,000 a year; a life expectancy which is seven years shorter; and the prospects of earning only half as much."

Kennedy's Civil Rights bill was still being debated by Congress when he was assassinated in November, 1963. The new president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, who had a poor record on civil rights issues, took up the cause. His main opponent was his long-time friend and mentor, Richard B. Russell, who told the Senate: "We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states." Russell organized 18 Southern Democratic senators in filibustering this bill.

However, on the 15th June, 1964, Richard B. Russell privately told Mike Mansfield and Hubert Humphrey, the two leading supporters of the Civil Rights Act, that he would bring an end to the filibuster that was blocking the vote on the bill. This resulted in a vote being taken and it was passed by 73 votes to 27.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act made racial discrimination in public places, such as theaters, restaurants and hotels, illegal. It also required employers to provide equal employment opportunities. Projects involving federal funds could now be cut off if there was evidence of discriminated based on colour, race or national origin.

The Civil Rights Act also attempted to deal with the problem of African Americans being denied the vote in the Deep South. The legislation stated that uniform standards must prevail for establishing the right to vote. Schooling to sixth grade constituted legal proof of literacy and the attorney general was given power to initiate legal action in any area where he found a pattern of resistance to the law.



http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAcivil64.htm


Last edited by regicide on Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
Kennedy - Lincoln Similarities

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.







Blacks would disagree with this.


Blacks would disagree that Lincoln was born in 1860? Hmm. Interesting new theory. Any references to support it?



Black historians are not very favorable to Kennedy's record while in office.


Who got more black votes - Kennedy or Nixon?


Folks--look at this silly *beep*. I am talking about historians and he is talking about the 1960 election!


I guess that explains why the named a predominantly black college in Chicago after Kennedy and King.


What you now introduce�naming this college after Kennedy died, has nothing to do with the 1960 election.

Naming things after people has nothing to do with reality.

Let�s talk about specific African American politicians and historians and set this record straight.


Read my above post. JFK and MLK were the most adored Americans by blacks in the 1960s.


I am looking for prominent black politicians or historians after the President died.

I do not see an example in the material you provide.

Have you seen "JFK a Presidency Revealed?"

In this History Channel video you can see the African American who spoke ill of Kennedy's record while in office. I will get back to you with his name.

I actually wrote to him a year ago and never received a reply. I also lost the outgoing email or obviously I would have his name. He is a very well know civil rights leader.

I took exception to his comments on A Presidency Revealed and that is why I wrote to him.


So one black historian spoke ill of JFK. That's a far cry from your claim that "blacks don't think JFK was particularly concerned about civil rights."


If you say so boss.


So why did most black families in the 60s have a picture of JFK and MLK on their wall?
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is still possible to argue, as some leftists do, that while JFK might have been less than progressive prior to assuming the Presidency, once he was in office, he became the champion and hope for liberal-progressive. But this idea is likewise not borne out by what JFK said and did during his thousand days. Once again, it was the image of a "Vital Center" Democrat that prevailed, and more often than not leaning more center and right than left.

On Civil Rights, JFK conducted a policy that was virtually a carbon copy of the one Dwight Eisenhower carried out. Like Ike, JFK believed in the moral correctness of integration. Like Ike in the Little Rock High School crisis of 1956, JFK was prepared to use the power of the federal government to uphold the law, as he did when he sent troops to protect the admittance of James Meredith to the University of Mississippi, and later to more peacefully force integration at the University of Alabama.

But like Eisenhower, JFK also felt that the momentum for civil rights and integration had to be kept at a gradual pace, lest a situation of unrest and backlash erupt all over the south. Like Eisenhower, JFK had no great love for the overt activism of Martin Luther King and the SCLC or the Congress on Racial Equality, and frequently wished that the Civil Rights organizations would act with more restraint.

In the Spring of 1961, CORE began its infamous "Freedom Rides" on Greyhound buses from Washington to New Orleans in an effort to test whether bus facilities were being desegregated. Along the way, there was a great deal of violence, with many racists assaulting the riders and burning some of the buses. To protect the riders, JFK decided that some federal marshals would have to be sent along. But as Harris Wofford, JFK's civil rights advisor recalled, JFK was furious with CORE for inviting trouble, especially at a time when JFK was preoccupied with the upcoming Vienna summit with Khrushchev. "Can't you get your friends off those goddamned buses?" he angrily asked Wofford, "Stop them."

As the rides continued, both JFK and RFK were still upset by what they felt were the "giant-pain-in-the-asses" at CORE who had invited the trouble with the Rides. JFK felt that the more he had to openly side with civil rights, the more difficult it would be for him to get anything past the racist Southern Democrats in Congress who wielded considerable power. JFK wanted to be supportive of Civil Rights, but he wanted to see the movement act on his own terms. (29)

JFK's less than wholehearted feelings of affection for the movement would surface again two years later when both he and RFK would agree with J. Edgar Hoover that King needed to be wiretapped because at least one of his advisors had suspected communist ties, and both JFK and RFK had met with King urging the civil rights leader to drop those men from his group. King refused. (30)

Likewise, when it came time for King to hold his famous March on Washington in 1963, Kennedy's support was passive and tepid. JFK regarded any march as something that would only be counterproductive in efforts to get civil rights legislation through Congress, and tried to talk King out of it. Again, Kennedy was not willing to go out on a limb and give full 100% backing to the movement. (31)

Ultimately, it was Lyndon Johnson who would be the only man that could get landmark Civil Rights legislation through Congress. As a southerner, and more importantly, as the former Senate Majority Leader who had made all the deals, it was LBJ who had the prestige and respect with the members of Congress that JFK had never had. In the same way that one argues that only Richard Nixon could go to China, one could also say that only LBJ could get the important Civil Rights legislation that truly eradicated legal segregation for all time. But if it is correct that JFK's successor was the one who could get more progressive laws passed on civil rights, then why would JFK, the man who's record was not as progressive, have to be removed from power by reactionaries?

Fiscally, JFK was also hardly the "progressive." As noted, his entire pre-presidential career had been based on distancing himself from the New Deal tradition. To be sure, he had to support all of the existing New Deal programs but there is no evidence that he had any desire to implement a new wave of big government spending. Indeed, the one thing of JFK's fiscal policy that is most remembered is his call for a cut in the capital gains tax, an idea that is now at the centerpiece of the Republican economic program. JFK's own Secretary of the Treasury, Douglas Dillon, had been a Republican holdover from the Eisenhower Administration.

But even if JFK had wanted to push for his own version of a "Great Society", there was no way that he would ever get it given his bad relations with the Congress. Indeed, there is not one significant piece of domestic legislation that JFK was able to get passed through the Congress. His most famous "progressive" innovation, the Peace Corps, came about only by Executive Order, while his other notable domestic achievement, the space program, could hardly be called "progressive." JFK was not so much impressed with the need for getting to the moon "because it was there" but because of its importance from a Cold War propaganda perspective.

Again, one is hard-pressed to understand how JFK's death was a blow for "progressivism." If anything, there never would have been a progressive achievement like the Great Society had it not been for the vision of LBJ (who wanted to outdo his mentor FDR) and his skill at handling Congress. Likewise, the momentum for Civil Rights was possible only because of Johnson's actions, not JFK's. To argue therefore, that reactionaries were conspiring to kill the moderate JFK and make the more progressive LBJ president, have no conception whatever of what the political situation at the time was.


Last edited by regicide on Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
Kennedy - Lincoln Similarities

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.







Blacks would disagree with this.


Blacks would disagree that Lincoln was born in 1860? Hmm. Interesting new theory. Any references to support it?



Black historians are not very favorable to Kennedy's record while in office.


Who got more black votes - Kennedy or Nixon?


Folks--look at this silly *beep*. I am talking about historians and he is talking about the 1960 election!


I guess that explains why the named a predominantly black college in Chicago after Kennedy and King.


What you now introduce�naming this college after Kennedy died, has nothing to do with the 1960 election.

Naming things after people has nothing to do with reality.

Let�s talk about specific African American politicians and historians and set this record straight.


Read my above post. JFK and MLK were the most adored Americans by blacks in the 1960s.


I am looking for prominent black politicians or historians after the President died.

I do not see an example in the material you provide.

Have you seen "JFK a Presidency Revealed?"

In this History Channel video you can see the African American who spoke ill of Kennedy's record while in office. I will get back to you with his name.

I actually wrote to him a year ago and never received a reply. I also lost the outgoing email or obviously I would have his name. He is a very well know civil rights leader.

I took exception to his comments on A Presidency Revealed and that is why I wrote to him.


So one black historian spoke ill of JFK. That's a far cry from your claim that "blacks don't think JFK was particularly concerned about civil rights."


If you say so boss.


So why did most black families in the 60s have a picture of JFK and MLK on their wall?


Cause maybe they liked the folks.


So it stands to reason they felt JFK was "particularly concerned" about civil rights. Or was it because of JFKs Cuban Missile Crisis work?
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Kennedy a keen civil rights man? In the immediate aftermath of his death, only praise was heaped on the murdered president. To do otherwise would have been considered highly unpatriotic. However, in recent years there has been a re-evaluation of Kennedy and what he did in his presidency. For a man who claimed that poor housing could be ended with the signing of the president's name, Kennedy did nothing. His Department of Urban Affairs bill was rejected by Congress and eventually only a weak housing act was passed which applied only to future federal housing projects.

Kennedy was a politician and he was acutely aware that Democrats were less than happy with a disproportionate amount of time being spent on civil rights issues when the Cold War was in full flight with Vietnam flaring up and the world settling down after the problems poised by Cuba.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/john_kennedy_and_civil_rights.htm


Last edited by regicide on Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
Kennedy - Lincoln Similarities

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.







Blacks would disagree with this.


Blacks would disagree that Lincoln was born in 1860? Hmm. Interesting new theory. Any references to support it?



Black historians are not very favorable to Kennedy's record while in office.


Who got more black votes - Kennedy or Nixon?


Folks--look at this silly *beep*. I am talking about historians and he is talking about the 1960 election!


I guess that explains why the named a predominantly black college in Chicago after Kennedy and King.


What you now introduce�naming this college after Kennedy died, has nothing to do with the 1960 election.

Naming things after people has nothing to do with reality.

Let�s talk about specific African American politicians and historians and set this record straight.


Read my above post. JFK and MLK were the most adored Americans by blacks in the 1960s.


I am looking for prominent black politicians or historians after the President died.

I do not see an example in the material you provide.

Have you seen "JFK a Presidency Revealed?"

In this History Channel video you can see the African American who spoke ill of Kennedy's record while in office. I will get back to you with his name.

I actually wrote to him a year ago and never received a reply. I also lost the outgoing email or obviously I would have his name. He is a very well know civil rights leader.

I took exception to his comments on A Presidency Revealed and that is why I wrote to him.


So one black historian spoke ill of JFK. That's a far cry from your claim that "blacks don't think JFK was particularly concerned about civil rights."


If you say so boss.


So why did most black families in the 60s have a picture of JFK and MLK on their wall?


Cause maybe they liked the folks.


So it stands to reason they felt JFK was "particularly concerned" about civil rights. Or was it because of JFKs Cuban Missile Crisis work?


Having fun tonight? I am having a few Budweisers.

What are you on?

You jump all over the place , man.

Enjoy yourself. I am.


OB Blue.

So where's your evidence that "blacks don't think JFK was particularly concerned with civil rights"? Beyond your one unnamed black on one TV show.
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Don Gately



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
Kennedy - Lincoln Similarities

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.

Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Both were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.

Both were succeeded by Southerners.

Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth,was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald,was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are comprised of fifteen letters.

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

And here's the kicker;

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was in Marilyn Monroe.


Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.



I think we are going to find more evidence to the contrary:

John Kennedy came from a rich and privileged Irish-American family. Even so, the family had to leave Boston, the city they are most famously associated with, and moved to New York. In Boston, the family had been held at arms length by those rich families who saw their Irish background as vulgar and the family�s wealth as lacking �class�. The Kennedy�s hoped that the more cosmopolitan New York would allow them to access high society. This introduction to bigotry and discrimination should have given Kennedy some kind of empathetic understanding of what life was like for African Americans. However, the opposite would appear to be true.

Kennedy put political realism before any form of beliefs when he voted against Eisenhower�s 1957 Civil Rights Act. The route from bill to act nearly served to tear apart the Republicans and the Democrats were almost united to a politician in their opposition to the bill/act. Kennedy had aspirations to be the Democrats next presidential candidate in the 1960 election. If he was seen to be taking the party line and demonstrating strong leadership with regards to opposing the bill, this would do his chances no harm whatsoever. This proved to be the case and Kennedy lead the Democrats to victory over Richard Nixon in 1960.

Regardless of his promises, in 1961 Kennedy did nothing to help and push forward the civil rights issue. Why? International factors meant that the president could never focus attention on domestic issues in that year. He also knew that there was no great public support for such legislation. Opinion polls indicated that in 1960 and 1961, civil rights was at the bottom of the list when people were asked "what needs to be done in America to advance society ?" Kennedy was also concentrating his domestic attention on improving health care and helping the lowest wage earners. Civil rights issues would only cloud the issue and disrupt progress in these areas. Kennedy also argued that improving health care and wages for the poor would effectively be civil rights legislation as they would benefit the most from these two.

What did Kennedy do to advance the cause of civil rights?



http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/john_kennedy_and_civil_rights.htm
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.



What did Kennedy do to advance the cause of civil rights?

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/john_kennedy_and_civil_rights.htm


What does that have to do with how blacks view him?

And maybe you should have read more of the article. He may not have made significant substantive changes (due in large part to the fact that a President can only do so much without Congress behind him), but he gave blacks hope that they would be treated fairly.

Quote:
he put pressure on federal government organisations to employ more African Americans in America�s equivalent of Britain�s Civil Service. Any who were employed were usually in the lowest paid posts and in jobs that had little prospect of professional progress. The FBI only employed 48 African Americans out of a total of 13,649 and these 48 were nearly all chauffeurs. Kennedy did more than any president before him to have more African Americans appointed to federal government posts. In total, he appointed 40 to senior federal positions including five as federal judges.
Kennedy appointed his brother (Robert) as Attorney General which put him at the head of the Justice Department. Their tactic was to use the law courts as a way of enforcing already passed civil rights legislation. No southern court could really argue against laws that were already in print - though they were very good at interpreting the law in a cavalier way !! The Justice Department brought 57 law suits against local officials for obstructing African Americans who wished to register their right to vote. Local officials from Louisiana were threatened with prison for contempt when they refused to hand over money to newly desegregated schools. Such a threat prompted others in Atlanta, Memphis and New Orleans to hand over finance without too many problems - few if any were willing to experience the American penal system which had a policy of punishment then as opposed to reforming prisoners.

Kennedy was very good at what would appear to be small gestures. In American football, the Washington Redskins were the last of the big teams to refuse to sign African Americans. Their stadium was federally funded and Kennedy ordered that they were no longer allowed to use the stadium and would have to find a new one. The team very quickly signed up African American players.

Kennedy created the CEEO (Commission on Equal Employment Opportunity). Its job was to ensure that all people employed with the federal government had equal employment opportunities; it also required all those firms that had contracts with the federal government to do the same if they were to win further federal contracts. However, the CEEO was only concerned with those already employed (though it did encourage firms to employ African Americans) and it did nothing to actively get employment opportunities for African Americans. The CEEO was concerned with those in employment within the federal government��.not the unemployed.
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