Korean Job Discussion Forums

[inseoul]

I can only presume this topic has been discussed in depth before, but a quick search for that keyword on Dave's bought up nothing very serious looking.

I have heard unions for foreigners are illegal ere, or the issue is being ruled on still in the courts.

There is however no argument about the need for one. I am referring specifically to an ESL teachers Union as that is my current occupation.

In a recent meeting with a well known Gangnam school manager, she told all the staff she was in the process of organizing one of "their regular" meetings between all English school owners in the Kangnam area. That's right; the managers of the leading schools in Kangnam actually meet regularly to discuss price strategy and other things. I presume teachers salaries as well.

I guess all of these schools in Gangnam do a good job in providing the English education services Korean people want access to, but it is of course quite feasible (and judging by her comments, very much true) that the schools working in that area of business collude to insure the balance of power remains firmly in their hands whilst doing so.

Such practices are illegal in Western countries (or might I say developed Countries).

It was also bought to my attention of late that one of the largest franchise schools in the Country actually have a standard term in their teacher contracts which is illegal under Korean labour law.

Without listing off all the issues teachers have here from contract breaches to even basic human rights issues, accommodation issues, etc.....I think it should be apparent to people that English teachers here need to work together in a cohesive form in order to earn the treatment they deserve.

So, Unions are illegal for foreign workers, but surely there is a better way to work together to improve rights and conditions than just posting on the biggest jobs sight (Dave's- which after all is deigned for revenue maximization and not necessarily to benefit teachers concerns at all).

You cannot rely on a site that makes up to $70,000/ month from selling esl job ads to schools, to best represent teacher's interests right?

So what we need is a site, or organization, which is NOT a union, where teachers can express concerns and work together on looking for solutions.

A union may have the power to organize a massive Nationwide "blue flu" day in which no teachers turn up for work on that day, which would send a very strong message to employers, the Gvt as well as parents; but a simple collective of teachers who are working together to solve issues could have almost just as much power of persuasion

Surely it would be so simple to set up a website or organization for such work and get the support of a large number of concerned foreign teachers here.

Looking forward to reading any constructive criticism

[Ya-ta Boy]

You are clearly a communist. Ask any Ron Paul Paulista. Actually, you won't have to ask. They will tell you.

[Corky]

OP, there are two perennial truths about living in Korea (omitting the beautiful and unique four distinct seasons): CDI will lose 10-15 Gyopos and Canadians to drug busts, and someone teaching here will suggest forming a teacher's union.

Which is not to say I don't wish you good luck.

[inseoul]

i would have no interest in helping teachers who want to smoke dope here.

im talking about employment issues, not criminal ones.

[ttompatz]

foreigners working on an E2 forming a union is a criminal activity.

It is strictly and specifically forbidden under the terms of your visa.

We (specifically as foreign teachers) are not permitted to take part in union activites, protests or political activies.

[inseoul]

yes, it can only be a club, formed to help teachers do their jobs more effectively and organize activites that will help us work better.

that is not illegal.

no politics. no protests. just discussion and maybe some "action" designed to help teachers, students and good employers.

[hari seldon]

I think a foreign teachers club or association would be a great idea. We could model it after the Seoul Foreign Correspondents Club or the American and Canadian Chambers of Commerce here.

Although it wouldn't be a union, it could be a useful platform for our views.

[inseoul]

as a group, we could designate the odd day every now again as a designated "training day", in which all members were encouraged to take the day off work (the same day) in order to join an online discussion and education forum on some of the issues that are of importance.

one can see the benefits of such a procedure, across the Country, on the same day.

not political action i might add. simply a teacher training day, for teachers by teachers.

[inseoul]

another smart idea would be a recruitment website set up, in which all payments made by advertisers go into a fund owned by the members of the site (ie, teachers), and those funds are used to help develope and meet the concerns and needs of foreign teachers here in korea.

only schools who are prepared to meet the standards set by the members are allowed to advertise or hire teachers from the site.

the more teachers who use that site to find work, the more funds available to better the conditions and security for foreign teachers here.

[bondjimbond]

[hari seldon]

[Homer]

InSeoul

This idea pops up on here regularly. Nearly everytime the person who starts it has good intentions but misses some key points that doom the enterprise from the start. I am sad to say you have also missed these points out of good intention.

If you want to forum a serious group, union, sect, circle of friends, activity group or lobby (that is what your proposition most ressembles) you need to answer these basic questions to see if what you propose has any shot of flying...

1- Is it legal to do what you propose under the work visa laws and labor laws of Korea?

Tom has provided a clear answer to that which concerns the vast majority of your potential members: E-2 Holders.

2- Who will run this group?

The industry here is heterogenous at best. You have people on different visas, working in different sectors of ESL with different conditions, long-timers, short-timers, illegals and so on....

3- Who manages the money you intend on gathering?

Who will be in charge of the advertisement money and-or the dues the union will eventually have to charge?

4- How do you choose who is a member?

I mean, you have plenty of E-2 teachers here teaching privates. That is illegal under their visa. Would you welcome these teachers into your group? That would sink it before it was even away. If not, how would you screen these people out?

Why would a short-termer here for 1-2 years to pay off loans and party (there are some like that) join such a group? If he or she did, would that be a positive contribution to your lobby group?

You talk about organizing activities such as national days off...do you even know what the labor law is regarding this?

As for forming a recruitment service.

Who would run it? Who would decided who can advetise? How would the agency deal with the inevitable teacher complaints (some clearly nor warranted or based on anything more real than immaturity)?

5- Would you include Korean educators and administrators in your group? If not, who would deal with the Korean language issues?

If you hire a foreigner that is fluent in Korean for this...you need to pay him. How will you do that legally?

If you do not include Korean educators and administrators, who credible will you look?


6- How do you propose to negociate conditions for your membership?

You will need labor lawyers here..again how do you pay them?

Also, how do you manage to agree on a set of demands from a teaching community that is so different?

Your avg Hakwon teacher has a different set of demands than say the teacher working in a Company or University....

Also, how will you manage to get over the problem that many established teachers will simply not want to join a group unless that group makes sure to have a membership that is 100% legal (i.e. respecting their work visa to a tee)?

These are just a few basic questions but all of them, if not anwsered conclusively mean that sadly the boat will not float. This is not me trying to shoot down the idea...it is just the reality of trying to form a group or union like you are discussing here.

[twg]

They've tried to get unions or whatever going in the past. They keep failing because:

1- 90% of the people teaching will be gone within a year and don't care.

2- 9% are on F2 or tourist visas and are too busy maintaining their gravy trains to care

The remaining one percent were the only ones who got the memo and showed up to the meeting

[Biblethumper]

The only time I ever saw collective action by foreign teachers is when a bunch of them banded together to get another foreign colleague fired because they did not like him. So I vote no.

[Zaria32]

Some years ago there was a collective action against Berlitz Korea, where most of the Western teachers walked out. Despite contracts, if I recall correctly, Berlitz had decided to lower the amount teachers were paid.
Do a search.....
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=43939&highlight=berlitz
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=47573&highlight=berlitz
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=52536&highlight=berlitz
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=33356&highlight=berlitz
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=27963&highlight=berlitz

Also, read this link about one Berlitz teacher's experience:
http://berlitz.generalunion.org/fred.htm

I don't know any of this from being involved in it, only from reading
about it.