Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rD.NaTas]

To me it sounds as if Cognorati is parroting books ,essays , online publications as well as fellow feminist rants .She jumps around way too much and fails to properly express her points . Then when sumone calls her bluff she becomes defensive and judgemental . Wack jobb

[daemyann]

[cunning_stunt]

Clotoridectamy is a cruel practice and not something that should be actively supported . Even if it is practiced as a cultural phenomenon that's not to say it should not be discouraged .

In South Africa most black men are expected to "go to the bush" to become "makwetes" . This means they camp out in traditional style for a month or so and fend for themselves ....after which they get cirumcised . The method it is done is incredibly painful and humiliating and leads to many deaths via infection , after which one becomes a man . Is this sexism too Cog is it just an extreme form of cultural expression ?

My black private school , highly educated and wealthy friends all underwent this ritual when they turned 18 . Often by choice to appease their families . I don't say this to defend clitoridectamy , but I just use it as an example of the things people that are related to culture and not sexism . Men self inflicting harm on one another ...fathers doing it to sons .....out of love and respect for each other .

In a lighter ,naughtier mood I had this to write about clidoridectamy( which any sane person would not take seriously)--->

http://fingerandthumb.blogspot.com/2006/10/doomsday-devices-reconsidered.html

(I no longer write that silly blog since korean internet insists on displaying all the tools for "blogger " in hangul ....for which I don't even have the language pack....if anyone has any suggestions how to fix either/both these problems please let me know)

[Cognorati]

Previously, someone asked me if I actually believed that anyone on this thread would endorse genital mutilation, which I actually did not believe (I didn't beleive that after seeing its consequences, physical, emotional, psychological, or speaking to female activists and victims who've spoken out, that anyone would argue that it is a matter of cultural relativity), and I find it interesting that someone has, citing an "expert" on the practice... Interesting that she cites a wealthy white woman but discounts the perspective of African women and the WHO: where does that leave the dialogue, now? WHO IS THE ACTUAL RADICAL?

This is also very interesting:

[nicholas_chiasson]

Does this thread remind anyone else of the tv show "lambchops?"

[Scarlet13]

No but it does remind me of a gong show.

Did you know that there are folks pushing FC on this site? Wow. It looked to me as if no endorsed the practice, although I did say that it was not men who forced the practice on women, but the women themselves. The only way to understand it and change it is to understand why it is done and not to ignorantly blame men, which will accomplish nothing.

It is amazing that some of these people teach English and yet are not able to comprehend basic sentences. Simply amazing.


"Cognorati" Previously, someone asked me if I actually believed that anyone on this thread would endorse genital mutilation, which I actually did not believe (I didn't beleive that after seeing its consequences, physical, emotional, psychological, or speaking to female activists and victims who've spoken out, that anyone would argue that it is a matter of cultural relativity), and I find it interesting that someone has, citing an "expert" on the practice... Interesting that she cites a wealthy white woman but discounts the perspective of African women and the WHO: where does that leave the dialogue, now? WHO IS THE ACTUAL RADICAL?

Can you even read?

[anyway]

[Scarlet13]

Anyway,

She is western but her subjects are not. I'm glad you are looking into her, FGM is such a horrible subject and she does a good job of presenting the facts in a fair manner.

To be clear my issue with WHO is that they refuse to allow medical professionals to assist these women. I understand why they do it but I believe it is a choice that kills little girls. I know some people will disagree but the fact is they can't stop these women, but they take away the tools that would if nothing else make the procedure less painful and sterile. Again I know many people would agree with WHO but so many little girls die from infection so I find it difficult to support it.

The west can't force it to stop. It happens everywhere,(there was a famous case in Toronto a few years back). I think the key to stopping it is to educated these women on the real dangers it poses to sterility. The primary reason for it is not to maintain virginity, and there is research to suggest that orgasm is still possible for some women (I would imagine the degree of the circumcision would be a factor). However I suspect that through education they will come to understand that they are harming their reproductive futures the practice will end.

[earthbound14]

I think you took my post way too seriously. I attempted to make a clear post about what I thought was the key elements of this thread.

Cunning demonstrating his clever wit while not really debating what could have been a valid topic for another thread. His comments were chauvanistic in a sarcastic manner. A clever way of being sexist, but not really, but making a point about reverse sexism while antagonistic against feminism. He has basically dominated a thread with a topic that he felt like discussing. I never said he wasn't angry. I just thought his selfish domination of the thread was more of an issue than is return volley at Cog.

Cog, getting upset and returning fire with male bashing that did demonstrate, or at least projected an image of a male hating feminist. Unfortunately Cog hasn't really brought anything to the table other than falling into an antagonists little game. She demonstrates intelligence, yet makes over generalizations about her "attacker" and does nothing to explain the topic she brought up in the first place. So unfortunately I don't find anything she has written as clever or observant. Not that she doesn't have the potential to do so. It just wasn't presented in this thread.

And yes I can say there was more content in Stunts replies than those of Cog. However, he shows that he cant back it up with the opinions of others (as in statistics) and is really only his opinion. An opinion that really should have been presented somewhere else. Cog hasn't really offered any information or an opinion that shows much thought. She seems to blurt out lots of jargon with very little substance. I don't know if she really does know anything about feminism or if she's just in a bad mood. Whatever the case she has strayed from her own topic and returned fire to a relatively silly post. She became angry over one guys opinion and actually made alot of her own generalizations in return.

Ya I think she has validated his posts. I think Stunning was a little more clever and was able to play an arrogant little game, a game where he skirts chauvanism in order to instigate. The thing is she fell for his game, not the other way around. Sorry Cog. He played you.

In the end Cunning only made a gross over generalization against feminism, one that didn't really belong here. I assume that with the proper argument Cog may have been able to poke holes in his bloated claims, acknowledged that indeed feminism does have some negative attributes and demonstrated what exactly is still wrong with the world. There are still alot of issues around the world regarding to women's rights that need to be adressed. Allowing another poster to deviate her from the topic with his ramblings did nothing.

[earthbound14]

This is a general discussion board. I don't think many rules of conduct exist.

Sticks and stones.......know how it ends?

[anyway]

[cunning_stunt]

[cunning_stunt]

17 pages ? Really ? Let's wrap this up .

In summary : Treating and trying to understand people as individuals is far superior to making gross negative associations based on their ethnicity or gender . When one does make gross negative associates in this regard ...then one is being either or both racist or sexist . A person who is racist or sexist has no credibility berating others for racism or sexism . Their prerogative if they wish to do so , is to first take a long introspective look at themselves and remove their bias . Once they have have done so , if anyone even can , they are fit to make observations and suggestions of this manner to others , provided they do not have implications in hampering the freedom of the individuals of that group to live as they please .

Apply that to Cog and I think we're about done here .

Apply it to clitoridectamy and the cultural argument probably fails at the last hurdle . The behaviour clearly can only be justified if the women who go through it themselves actively want the ritual performed and are willing to make the sacrifice for the percieved cultural rewards . Again , not a simple question as they might in fact do so . I'm pretty sure the only people who know that are the women themselves individually and it's not for us to do anything other than support the rights of people to live as they please , free of oppression of others .

That's a far more sophisticated way of looking at the matter . I don't see how "man hate" is an interesting of effective solution to this "problem" at all .

[anyway]

[anyway]