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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Evolution is just a theory. However, some people have a habit of turning this "theory" into "Law". |
Indeed. They force their evolution views on everyone.
Starting at school, and then into wider society.
Anyone with another opinion is immediately labelled a freak and excluded from society.
its a sort of modern totalitarianism. "We don't believe in anything, and if you do, you must be stupid". |
So, why don't you say the same about the other theories? Should we learn that another possible theory for illness is that it's caused by demons? Should we learn that lightbulbs are filled with God's love and then bless us by shining their light upon us?
Thoery ≠ Hypothesis
get over it. |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Yes, he was called "Adam". |
Uh oh, Junior. That sounds about 4,000 years too old to fit your view of the earth. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I have read quite a bit of what Junior/Rapier has been espousing. He's either a very committed troll, or there is some weird psychosis at work.
Junior, if you could step outside of yourself and into the mind of a normal person, you would also be asking WTF is that guy Junior talking about?
No offense, of course. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
Hitchens on religion (towards the end of part 2):
[i]"They (the religions) are all equally rotten, false, dishonest, corrupt, humorless and dangerous. I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism, which was explicit and open and sordid, but . . . |
Hitchens and his wretched disciples try to paint religion with a wide brush, but he can no more effectively defend every atheist who has ever lived than he can claim that all religion is inherently dangerous.
Newly unearthed archives offer the history of American Catholic resistance to Crystallnacht in 1937.
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[A] live national broadcast from the CUA campus, carried by both the Columbia Broadcasting System (CBS) and the National Broadcasting Company (NBC), featuring several prominent members of the clergy and a well-known former governor, patched in from their respective locations across the country. The announcer then introduced Rev. Maurice S. Sheehy, head of the university�s Department of Religious Education, who was the broadcast�s organizer. His voice, though grave, possessed the theatrical quality of a moving Sunday sermon.
�The world is witnessing a great tragedy in Europe today,� Father Sheehy began, �and after sober, calm reflection, various groups and leaders of the Catholic Church have sought permission to raise their voices, not in mad hysteria, but in firm indignation against the atrocities visited upon the Jews in Germany��
In constructing a timeline of the Holocaust, most scholars place Kristallnacht � Nov. 9, 1938 � at its start. �The night of broken glass.� On a raw night in late autumn, thousands of Jewish homes, shops and synagogues were ransacked throughout Germany in large-scale Nazi-orchestrated rioting that would continue for two days. Some Jews were beaten to death that night, and more than 30,000 Jewish men were rounded up for concentration camps.
CUA�s 27-minute broadcast went over the nation�s airwaves just six days after the violence abated, on Nov. 16, 1938. In a pre-Internet, pre-television era, the speed with which these geographically scattered members of the Catholic Church responded was impressive.
Catholic University was not simply a venue for the event. The university�s chief executive, Monsignor Joseph M. Corrigan (later elevated to bishop), was featured in the broadcast along with three of the school�s then current or former trustees: Archbishop John J. Mitty of San Francisco, Bishop Peter L. Ireton of Richmond, Va., and former governor of New York Al Smith, who in 1928 had been the first Catholic to run for president of the United States as a major-party nominee. Bishop John M. Gannon of Erie, Pa., also spoke on the broadcast. |
Hitchens wants to put the blame of the Holocaust on the Catholics. This is wrong. The blame of the Holocaust lies on hate, those who hated, and those who stood by and did nothing.
That Hitchens would use the Holocaust to attack religion is such blatant sophistry that it destroys any credibility Hitchens may have once had. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Hitchens wants to put the blame of the Holocaust on the Catholics.
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However, Hitchens actually said:
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| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism |
Purposefully or innocently, I don't know, your criticism exploits the obvious difference between the entities 'Catholic Church' and 'the Catholics'. And "Hitchens wants to put the blame of the Holocaust on the Catholics" is certainly an attack on a strawman Hitchens.
| Kuros wrote: |
| That Hitchens would use the Holocaust to attack religion is such blatant sophistry that it destroys any credibility Hitchens may have once had. |
He pointed out that the Catholic Church was an ally of of fascist states - a fact. Fascism became a powerful political movement primarily in Roman Catholic countries (Italy, Spain, Hungary, in South America) and in Nazi Germany many of the most important political leaders were from Roman Catholic Bavaria and Austria. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism |
Purposefully or innocently, I don't know, your criticism exploits the obvious difference between the entities 'Catholic Church' and 'the Catholics'. And "Hitchens wants to put the blame of the Holocaust on the Catholics" is certainly an attack on a strawman Hitchens.
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Hitchens' thesis is sentence A:
| Quote: |
| They (the religions) are all equally rotten, false, dishonest, corrupt, humorless and dangerous. |
His evidence is sentence B:
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| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism, which was explicit and open and sordid, but . . . |
He is using the Catholic Church during the 1930s to indict religion itself! And using the HOLOCAUST OF ALL THINGS!
There is no distortion on my part. Where else is Hitchens' evidence that religion is bad? Does he just mention sentence B in passing?
Again, Hitchens did not call institutions rotten, false, etc, he called religions themselves rotten and false.
You and peel come on this board and tell us again and again the danger, stupidity, and slavery of religion. And you boisterously quote one of the most outlandish of the worst member of the Four Horseman's theories. And now you shrink from its full impact and intellectual vacuity.
Please, please, interpret for me why Hitchens would mention the Catholic Church's 'crimes' during the Holocaust the very sentence after he makes a sweeping generalization of all religion if not to support that generalization? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Justin Hale wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism |
Purposefully or innocently, I don't know, your criticism exploits the obvious difference between the entities 'Catholic Church' and 'the Catholics'. And "Hitchens wants to put the blame of the Holocaust on the Catholics" is certainly an attack on a strawman Hitchens.
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Hitchens' thesis is sentence A:
| Quote: |
| They (the religions) are all equally rotten, false, dishonest, corrupt, humorless and dangerous. |
His evidence is sentence B:
| Quote: |
| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism, which was explicit and open and sordid, but . . . |
He is using the Catholic Church during the 1930s to indict religion itself! And using the HOLOCAUST OF ALL THINGS! |
Kuros, the holocaust was not mentioned in that quote.
And Catholic dogma is directly responsible for the ideas that gave birth to the holocaust. Centuries of anti-Semitism had inflamed and enraged "Hitler's Willing Helpers".
And let's not forget that the Chruch's policy of non-involvement in the genocide was fueled by Pope Pius XII's belief that a strong Germany could protect the Church from the communists. He wanted the Germans to defeat the Soviets.
The church does not have a very nice past. And today, in an almost genocidal fit of stupidity, tells Africans that condoms don't stop HIV and they ought to just stop screwing. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
His evidence is sentence B:
| Quote: |
| I would have certainly said in the 1930s that the Catholic Church was the most deadly organization because of its alliance with fascism, which was explicit and open and sordid, but . . . |
He is using the Catholic Church during the 1930s to indict religion itself! And using the HOLOCAUST OF ALL THINGS!
There is no distortion on my part. Where else is Hitchens' evidence that religion is bad? Does he just mention sentence B in passing?
Again, Hitchens did not call institutions rotten, false, etc, he called religions themselves rotten and false.
You and peel come on this board and tell us again and again the danger, stupidity, and slavery of religion. And you boisterously quote one of the most outlandish of the worst member of the Four Horseman's theories. And now you shrink from its full impact and intellectual vacuity.
Please, please, interpret for me why Hitchens would mention the Catholic Church's 'crimes' during the Holocaust the very sentence after he makes a sweeping generalization of all religion if not to support that generalization? |
*refreshes memory of the vid and what actually was said*
Well, the quotes I typed were highlights I found interesting. Hitchens' sentence B follows a minute or more later from sentence A (after a brief discussion on a different topic). So I apologize (to Mr Hitchens) for that misrepresentation. I took sentence B as an example of A - the alliance with fascism, of all things, of the Church, as an example of religion being rotten. That was my example of sentence A, essentially. I put them together as I thought it was one example that defensibly followed.
Here is the part on youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ShzphSB7E5A&feature=related (3-6 mins in) |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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