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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I honestly don't know how anyone with an average sense of justice could possibly agree with Ross. His extraordinarily biased and subjective account is not even worth my time attaching an adjective to! No Big_Bird, don't start... go and put the dinner on!!!!
and finklefart is so objective
Last edited by postfundie on Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| what is your point? |
America = bad
He can produce an entire list of pretexts and graphs from the internet to prove his point (at least to himself). |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| [Well the problem is, we have very different 'facts.' If you look closely, you'll find it's generally Israel that starts the wars, for one. . |
Let's indeed look closely.
1948-1949 war.
Started by the Arabs.
1956. This was provoked by the nationalization of the Suez Canal. Britain and France backed Israel on this one BTW.
But let's give this one to the Israelis.
1967. Nasser mobilized forces and closed the Gulf of Aquaba to Israel which sparked the war.
Started by the Arabs.
1973-1974.
Started by the Arabs
1982.
Started by the Israelis but it was merely the ending to a number of raids and reprisals that all began with a 1978 raid by the Arabs.
But even though it all started with the terrorist attack in 1978 let's give it to the Israelis.
Score 3 for the Arabs, 2 for Israel
Also keep in mind if the Arabs had accepted Israel from the beginning the entire area would have been a LOT better off. THEY were the ones that started the whole ball of wax rolling in the beginning. |
Your 'score' can be greatly disputed, and I could spend a day addressing just your last paragraph alone. But I'm trying hard to stick to a recent vow of not being drawn into this particular topic of discussion. I just haven't got the time anymore. 'Me time' is a rare and precious luxury these days. |
I was only responding to your claim that it is Israel who generally starts the wars. And let's not forget the most recent one which was started by the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. So that's another to add to the Arabs's score.
And the "score" can only be disputed if you ignore the facts. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
I was only responding to your claim that it is Israel who generally starts the wars. And let's not forget the most recent one which was started by the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. So that's another to add to the Arabs's score.
And the "score" can only be disputed if you ignore the facts. |
Well, you clearly do. For starters, it has already been admitted by members of Israeli leadership that the capture of the soldiers was merely a pretext for the invasion of Lebanon. Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. And afterall, it's not unusual for a nation to go to war on account of a minor border skirmish now, is it. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
| But of course BigBird decides that Israel and America are bad, very bad. Then she finds that the murderousm barbaric Palestinian leadership and Khomeni's Iran are good, very good. |
Well, because you are so unsophisticated, and only able to see things in those terms yourself, it's unsurprising you've attributed such a childish view to me.
Of course I don't think the Palestinian and Iran leadership are innocent little choirboys.
Because I don't think they are evil mindless devils either, you assume I must have the reverse opinion and believe them to be sweet little angels. Pity for you that you are only able to see the world in such a babyish manner.
Do I really have to spell this out for grown ups? Iranians, Palestinians and Israelis are all human beings (Yes even Iranians are human beings!) and come replete with all the qualities and flaws of the rest of our species. Sometimes they're naughty and sometimes they're sweet. Like me! |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Big_Bird"]
| The_Conservative wrote: |
I was only responding to your claim that it is Israel who generally starts the wars. And let's not forget the most recent one which was started by the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. So that's another to add to the Arabs's score.
And the "score" can only be disputed if you ignore the facts. |
Well, you clearly do. For starters, it has already been admitted by members of Israeli leadership that the capture of the soldiers was merely a pretext for the invasion of Lebanon.
Links perchance? And I don't mean Counterpunch or its ilk.[ And even were that true...they still didn't START the war.
Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon.
I believe what the Prime Minister said was that any kidnapping of its soldiers would lead to war.
And afterall, it's not unusual for a nation to go to war on account of a minor border skirmish now, is it.[
It's happened before...probably will happen again.
/quote]
Last edited by The_Conservative on Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. |
So what?
America has plans for an attack on Canada.
The fact is that Nasrullah ordered an attack on an Israeli border post. His troops killed several Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two, one of whom died immediately.
Israel has little strategic depth and is exposed on all its borders. And we all saw this when Hezbollah rockets hit Israeli civilian areas.
As much as you might wish Israel had struck first, it didn't happen that way. Hezbollah was the clear aggressor. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
I was only responding to your claim that it is Israel who generally starts the wars. And let's not forget the most recent one which was started by the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. So that's another to add to the Arabs's score.
And the "score" can only be disputed if you ignore the facts. |
Well, you clearly do. For starters, it has already been admitted by members of Israeli leadership that the capture of the soldiers was merely a pretext for the invasion of Lebanon. Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. And afterall, it's not unusual for a nation to go to war on account of a minor border skirmish now, is it. |
why would Israel not have plans to go to war against a group that is dedicated to destroying it?
Besides why would israel want to invade Lebanon except to stop the war against it?
As I have said if Hizzbollah is not out to destroy Israel than Israel did too much but if Israel is out to destroy Israel then why ought Israel not hit Hizzbollah with everything it has? To do otherwise would be just to wait around for the next attack. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. |
So what?
America has plans for an attack on Canada.
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OK then. Israel had already voiced their intentions to have a war very soon prior to the incident, and after the incident admitted that the kidnapping had been a pretext for embarking on their attack which they had been hoping to put into action. I do not believe the US hopes to attack Canada anytime soon.
We've argued this several times before, Kuros, and are merely wasting more of our time. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. |
So what?
America has plans for an attack on Canada.
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OK then. Israel had already voiced their intentions to have a war very soon prior to the incident, and after the incident admitted that the kidnapping had been a pretext for embarking on their attack which they had been hoping to put into action. |
Goddamn this is weak, Big Bird. Seriously. Reminds me of some yellowcake in Niger style propaganda. "Bush had to make a pre-emptive strike to stop Saddam." Uh-huh. How is what you're saying different from this? You're blaming Israel for a pre-emptive strike they didn't make, and giving Hezbollah a pass for a pre-emptive strike they did make. It is called apologism.
Could you even bother to provide a link? I want to know what sources you're gleaning this info from?
Edit: Alright. We can drop it. But do you have a link? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Plans had been drawn up and they were waiting for a suitable excuse for the attack on Lebanon. |
So what?
America has plans for an attack on Canada.
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OK then. Israel had already voiced their intentions to have a war very soon prior to the incident, and after the incident admitted that the kidnapping had been a pretext for embarking on their attack which they had been hoping to put into action. I do not believe the US hopes to attack Canada anytime soon.
We've argued this several times before, Kuros, and are merely wasting more of our time. |
Is Canada out to destroy the US? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Edit: Alright. We can drop it. But do you have a link? |
Kuros, I don't have the time to debate this anymore. I'm not free and childless like most of the posters here, and it's a topic I'm always tempted to go into in great depth. Since we've done it 50 times before, there's really no point.
In 2006 I could have provided you links. Now, I'm in the same position as you, and would have to spend time thinking up different key words to google them up. Something you can do as easily as me.
I honestly would like to debate it with you - but I only have the time to dip my foot in here once in a while. When you have 2 small kiddies, you'll see what I mean! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Of course I don't think the Palestinian and Iran leadership are innocent little choirboys. |
With all due respect, that is not consistent with the positions you tend to take on this message board. And I recall your once telling me that the Palestinians were analogous to helpless, wide-eyed, innocent children.
Also, you focus too tightly on Israeli-Hezbollah relations re: 2006. You give no attn to Tehran or why this war broke out when it did and what it was intended to accomplish, etc. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Of course I don't think the Palestinian and Iran leadership are innocent little choirboys. |
With all due respect, that is not consistent with the positions you tend to take on this message board. And I recall your once telling me that the Palestinians were analogous to helpless, wide-eyed, innocent children. |
You have completely invented the 'wide-eyed innocent' part!
I made an analogy to compare the strength and power of the two parties. It's like a fight between a toddler and a full grown adult. The Palestinians are weak and ineffective, like a toddler faced with a full grown man.
Last edited by Big_Bird on Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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