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Iran Warns Netherlands Not to Air Controversial 'Anti-Muslim
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hear, hear, huffdaddy!!! Well said. Very well said.

The world view you speak of is based on fear, insecurity and doubt about Western values. The irony is that bigverne and peel claim to believe in protecting Western values, but they don't believe in them enough to practice them.
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
So then why weren't non-Catholic Christians setting off bombs in Brighton?


If you are referring to the IRA, then you are trying the tired routine of trying to associate Irish nationalist terrorism with Catholicism, despite the fact that the IRA never used Catholic doctrine to justify their actions, had specifically socialist and not religious leanings and saw themselves as a specifically nationalist movement.


More double-speak to justify your world view. If a Muslim shoots someone, it's in the name of Allah and all Muslims are evil. If a Christian shoots someone, it's an isolated incident. If a Muslim molests a little boy, all Muslims are pedophiles. If a bunch of priests and nuns molest little boys, it's an accountability problem. If a Muslim bombs the subway, all Muslims are violent extremists. If a Catholic tries to blow up the Primer Minister, it's a nationalist movement. If a Christian President speaks to God and invades a country because of that, he's reelected. If a Muslim leader speaks to Allah and invades a country, than Muslims are after the Caliphate. Do you really think Muslims have a monopoly on evil?

I'll proudly continue to judge people on their own individual merits, while the likes of you and BJWD continue to label and pigeonhole people in easy to define black-and-white categories.

How is it double-speak? Your examples are not the same as Bigverne's. I believe BV referenced muslim leaders. Your examples are not of Catholic or Christian leaders. In your example: "a Catholic tries to blow up the prime minister," was he instructed to do so by his priest in Sunday mass? You see, sometimes people act as individuals (and any individual belongs to some group but that does not mean the group(s) he is a part of had anything to do with his misdeed) and sometimes they are following orders or "suggestions." In the latter case, the group or group leader that gave the orders/suggestions is not irrelevant..
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
So then why weren't non-Catholic Christians setting off bombs in Brighton?


If you are referring to the IRA, then you are trying the tired routine of trying to associate Irish nationalist terrorism with Catholicism, despite the fact that the IRA never used Catholic doctrine to justify their actions, had specifically socialist and not religious leanings and saw themselves as a specifically nationalist movement.


More double-speak to justify your world view. If a Muslim shoots someone, it's in the name of Allah and all Muslims are evil. If a Christian shoots someone, it's an isolated incident. If a Muslim molests a little boy, all Muslims are pedophiles. If a bunch of priests and nuns molest little boys, it's an accountability problem. If a Muslim bombs the subway, all Muslims are violent extremists. If a Catholic tries to blow up the Primer Minister, it's a nationalist movement. If a Christian President speaks to God and invades a country because of that, he's reelected. If a Muslim leader speaks to Allah and invades a country, than Muslims are after the Caliphate. Do you really think Muslims have a monopoly on evil?

I'll proudly continue to judge people on their own individual merits, while the likes of you and BJWD continue to label and pigeonhole people in easy to define black-and-white categories.

How is it double-speak? Your examples are not the same as Bigverne's. I believe BV referenced muslim leaders. Your examples are not of Catholic or Christian leaders. In your example: "a Catholic tries to blow up the prime minister," was he instructed to do so by his priest in Sunday mass? You see, sometimes people act as individuals (and any individual belongs to some group but that does not mean the group(s) he is a part of had anything to do with his misdeed) and sometimes they are following orders or "suggestions." In the latter case, the group or group leader that gave the orders/suggestions is not irrelevant..


And to add: When a Christian kills, let's say, an abortion doctor, the vast majority of Christians speak out against the act and the person who did it. Do you know that some of the Arabs see the 9/11 hijackers AND OBL as heroes? The others believe that Jews orchestrated the whole thing. Very few Muslims speak out against terrorist acts...that's a major difference.
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huff, tell me about the IRA plan to take over Britain and start forcibly converting Britons to Catholicism. Surely, you have inside information.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:
Huff, tell me about the IRA plan to take over Britain and start forcibly converting Britons to Catholicism. Surely, you have inside information.


When some elderly pensioners took a lethal hit to the head from a bit of flying shrapnel from an IRA bomb, I doubt they spent their last few seconds thinking "well, hey at least the IRA isn't planning to convert everyone in the UK to Popery".

Islamic terrorism is a threat, no doubt. But the problem isn't that they have this grand plan to convert the whole world. Even if that's true(and it could very well be), it's never going to happen, certainly not by the nihilisitic methods that Al Qaeda is pursuing. It's like imagining that the biggest danger posed by Kim Jong Il is that he's gonna lead an international working class revolution and kill all the capitalists.
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Justin Hale



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Qaeda plumb sickening new depths....

from the Daily Mail
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Leslie Cheswyck wrote:
Huff, tell me about the IRA plan to take over Britain and start forcibly converting Britons to Catholicism. Surely, you have inside information.


When some elderly pensioners took a lethal hit to the head from a bit of flying shrapnel from an IRA bomb, I doubt they spent their last few seconds thinking "well, hey at least the IRA isn't planning to convert everyone in the UK to Popery".

Islamic terrorism is a threat, no doubt. But the problem isn't that they have this grand plan to convert the whole world. Even if that's true(and it could very well be), it's never going to happen, certainly not by the nihilisitic methods that Al Qaeda is pursuing. It's like imagining that the biggest danger posed by Kim Jong Il is that he's gonna lead an international working class revolution and kill all the capitalists.


With all due respect Al Qaeda could be more dangerous . Kim Jong Il with all his faults and as loony as he is is basically looking for money to support his life style and stay in power. He isn't really looking for revolution anymore.

Compare this to North Korea. Every time Kim Jong Il acts up or threatens war South Korea kicks him over some money and he is quiet for about 3 months or so until he wants some more money.

To a certain extent South Korea has the situation under control.

Al Qaeda is looking for something else. During the Iraq war they took the time and effort to send suicide bombers to Northern Iraq kill off as many as they could of a religious sect that they view as apostates. This had nothing to do with war against the US, yet in Al Qaeda's view it was a necessary thing to do.
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:

Islamic terrorism is a threat, no doubt. But the problem isn't that they have this grand plan to convert the whole world. Even if that's true(and it could very well be), it's never going to happen, certainly not by the nihilisitic methods that Al Qaeda is pursuing. It's like imagining that the biggest danger posed by Kim Jong Il is that he's gonna lead an international working class revolution and kill all the capitalists.


The sensational outrages of Al Qaeda here and there are not the real problem; it is the steady influx into Western countries of Muslim immigrants.

Remember, it wasn't Custer's 7th Cav that wrested the frontier from the American Indian but the steady stream of white settlers, whose numbers and way of life were an immeasurable burden on the Indian.

True, jihad and Manifest Destiny may be markedly dissimilar in overall objective, but they both feature, heavily, migration.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. Terrorism is a distraction from the larger problem. Sharia will not come from bombs. It could come from "tolerance", threats against individuals (like Wilders, Ali and Rushie) that makes criticism and open discussion too risky and a demographic wave of young men willing to use violence to defend their religion ("radical" muslims see furthering the expansion of islam as defending islam due to one of the key elements of islam being domination).

Even today, in many, many muslim countries, non-muslims are still being driven out, killed and treated as second class citizens. The process doesn't end until full submission of all people has been acquired.
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stevieg4ever



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. We are continually fed all these pompous stories about so called 'moderate' Muslims well they are a quiet bunch to say the least; when have we ever (in the UK at least) ever heard these so called 'moderates' denounce the crazy actions of their Msulim peers??? Never. Yet you get the freaks going round calling the 7/7 bombers the 'fantastic four', calling them heros on the yearly anniversary and all this rubbish.

The rhetoric and propaganda really drives me insane with Muslims. When 7/7 was taking place the rhetoric shifted rather dramatically to British society at large: apparently, so the left and the Muslim Council of Great Britain (that great champion of western values) say, "its our fault as a society for letting this happen because we all responsible for the cultural alienation, reclusion and disenfranchisement from core society and its values" for these boys who are, we are always told, into football and mcdonalds. Its a load of bs and the British are sick of it.

But should the 3 little pigs be introduced into a bookers prize that is a cardinal sin to Muslims. Should Christmas trees be erected in Bradford is again a mortal sin. Lest we publish cartoons in the press of a european country we are instantly labelled insensitive and crude when the Muslim press produce far worse material on Jews, Hindus etc

I respect fully the notion that not all Muslims hold these beliefs or are partial towards terrorism but all the same they need to take a stand and show their metal but they NEVER NEVER do. To stand by and let terrorist acts be perpetrated when you know they are going on is almost as much a sin as carrying out terrorist acts themselves.

It is virtually impossible for the authorities to go into these Muslim areas where English isnt a first, or even existing, language and extract the necessary inteligence they need in order to make the UK a safe place for people (including well to do Muslim people). Therefore they are reduced to prehistoric policies such as stop and search etc which do undermime core civil values but are necessary all the same in this current climate.

But Muslims always get their own way because its always violence violence and violence with these people.

What a catastrophe the 2nd WW really was. 6 million jews lost and what do we have to replace them: millions upon millions of Muslims.

wannago wrote:
flakfizer wrote:
huffdaddy wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
So then why weren't non-Catholic Christians setting off bombs in Brighton?


If you are referring to the IRA, then you are trying the tired routine of trying to associate Irish nationalist terrorism with Catholicism, despite the fact that the IRA never used Catholic doctrine to justify their actions, had specifically socialist and not religious leanings and saw themselves as a specifically nationalist movement.


More double-speak to justify your world view. If a Muslim shoots someone, it's in the name of Allah and all Muslims are evil. If a Christian shoots someone, it's an isolated incident. If a Muslim molests a little boy, all Muslims are pedophiles. If a bunch of priests and nuns molest little boys, it's an accountability problem. If a Muslim bombs the subway, all Muslims are violent extremists. If a Catholic tries to blow up the Primer Minister, it's a nationalist movement. If a Christian President speaks to God and invades a country because of that, he's reelected. If a Muslim leader speaks to Allah and invades a country, than Muslims are after the Caliphate. Do you really think Muslims have a monopoly on evil?

I'll proudly continue to judge people on their own individual merits, while the likes of you and BJWD continue to label and pigeonhole people in easy to define black-and-white categories.

How is it double-speak? Your examples are not the same as Bigverne's. I believe BV referenced muslim leaders. Your examples are not of Catholic or Christian leaders. In your example: "a Catholic tries to blow up the prime minister," was he instructed to do so by his priest in Sunday mass? You see, sometimes people act as individuals (and any individual belongs to some group but that does not mean the group(s) he is a part of had anything to do with his misdeed) and sometimes they are following orders or "suggestions." In the latter case, the group or group leader that gave the orders/suggestions is not irrelevant..


And to add: When a Christian kills, let's say, an abortion doctor, the vast majority of Christians speak out against the act and the person who did it. Do you know that some of the Arabs see the 9/11 hijackers AND OBL as heroes? The others believe that Jews orchestrated the whole thing. Very few Muslims speak out against terrorist acts...that's a major difference.
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chris_J2



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Islamic Riots Reply with quote

The latest threat from Iran, is that Dutch troops in Afghanistan will become a target, should this Wilders film be released. As if they weren't a target already. Rolling Eyes
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wannago wrote:

And to add: When a Christian kills, let's say, an abortion doctor, the vast majority of Christians speak out against the act and the person who did it.


Really? When and where? Do you really speak with the "majority of Christians"? Why is Pat Robertson so popular? While I've heard religious Christians voice their dislike of Fred Phelps, they are not the ones I see counter protesting.

Quote:
Do you know that some of the Arabs see the 9/11 hijackers AND OBL as heroes? The others believe that Jews orchestrated the whole thing. Very few Muslims speak out against terrorist acts...that's a major difference.


Some do. Sure. Why does that justify a blanket condemnation of all Muslims? A great many Muslims also spoke out against the 9/11 attacks. Some Southerners see Eric Rudolph as a hero.

Actually, I think I've discovered the problem.



In America, Muslims are viewed more favorably than atheists. You're just jealous.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
wannago wrote:

And to add: When a Christian kills, let's say, an abortion doctor, the vast majority of Christians speak out against the act and the person who did it.


Really? When and where? Do you really speak with the "majority of Christians"? Why is Pat Robertson so popular? While I've heard religious Christians voice their dislike of Fred Phelps, they are not the ones I see counter protesting.


HuffDaddy, if you're going to defend Islam as being distorted by the minority of a vocal few ignorant, you might NOT want to characterize Pat Robertson as representing the Christian movement. The truth is that men like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are media darlings precisely because they're bat-shit insane and useful for headlines, along the same principle that allows Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to have careers, and allows Muslim fanatics to paint their entire religion as steeped in ignorance and hate.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The truth is that men like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are media darlings precisely because they're bat-*beep* insane and useful for headlines


I'm sure there is some truth to that. However, I would think that another reason for Robertson's high-profile media status is that he has spoken at Republican National Conventions. Not to mention that he is sought after by leading Republicans for his endorsement.

Quote:
Pat Robertson, one of the most influential figures in the social conservative movement, announced his support for Rudy Giuliani's presidential bid this morning at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. [Watch the video below]


Robertson's endorsement of Giuliani is a significant blow to Mitt Romney, who has worked hard to court evangelical leaders. Above, Robertson speaks to the Christian Coalition in 1999. (File photo: James A. Parcell - The Washington Post)Robertson's support was coveted by several of the leading Republican candidates and provides Giuliani with a major boost as the former New York City mayor seeks to convince social conservatives that, despite his positions supporting abortion rights and gay rights, he is an acceptable choice as the GOP nominee.


http://tinyurl.com/2o5nv4
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm as fond as obedient Xtians as I am obedient muslims. These are both hateful, warrior ideas.

The difference is that nobody has ever told me to "tolerate" Pat Robertson or that I'm a bigot for thinking Xtian nuts are nuts.
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