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goal for 2010

 
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:22 am    Post subject: goal for 2010 Reply with quote

I heard that the new President is planning to set up a new English program in all the elementary schools.
By 2010, every elementary school in the country will have English classes conducted entirely in English.

Have you ever seen a Korean English teacher who doesn't patter continuously in Korean to the students for 50 minutes?
I haven't.

Korean English teachers won't even speak English to each other.
I have heard of a director who decreed that the English teachers would speak only English to each other.
Since this was inconceivable to them, they stopped speaking to each other entirely.
Some of the teachers even quit because the notion was inconceivable to them.

I can't wait to see what transpires in 2010.
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chachee99



Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard about this new program too. I feel it is a good idea, but the schools need to start planning for it right now and not wait until the last minute hoping all the pieces will fall into place. The president must also take into consideration the new visa laws. If there is a huge drop in foreign teachers then there will not be enough people to actually get this program off the ground.

Quote:
Have you ever seen a Korean English teacher who doesn't patter continuously in Korean to the students for 50 minutes?
I haven't.


Yes, Korean "English teachers" use way too much Korean in the classroom. I understand that some translation is a good thing, but too much makes it pointless. Kids simply cannot learn English through Korean. They need to use it as much as possible. A korean teacher's English lesson contains sometimes contains so little actual English in it that it makes the lesson almost pointless. The format of using Korean, then a little bit of English, followed by using even more Korean, and concluding with worksheets is not the most effective method of learning.
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chachee99 wrote:
Quote:
Have you ever seen a Korean English teacher who doesn't patter continuously in Korean to the students for 50 minutes? I haven't.

Yes, Korean "English teachers" use way too much Korean in the classroom. I understand that some translation is a good thing, but too much makes it pointless. Kids simply cannot learn English through Korean. They need to use it as much as possible. A korean teacher's English lesson contains sometimes contains so little actual English in it that it makes the lesson almost pointless. The format of using Korean, then a little bit of English, followed by using even more Korean, and concluding with worksheets is not the most effective method of learning.

The Korean English teachers received tenure, promotions, benefits, and salary increases that the foreign English teachers never saw (and probably never will see).

Education at a Glance 2007
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/36/5/39290975.pdf
Quote:
Salaries of teachers with at least 15 years of experience at the lower secondary level range from less than USD 16,000 in Hungary to USD 51,000 or more in Germany, Korea and Switzerland, and exceed USD 88,000 in Luxembourg.


Quote:
Teachers in Korea have guaranteed tenure until they reach the mandatory retirement age.

from page 27
Attracting, Developing and Retaining Effective Teachers
Country Note: Korea (April 2004)
John Coolahan, Paulo Santiago, Rowena Phair and Akira Ninomiya
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Directorate for Education, Education and Training Policy Division
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/49/31690991.pdf

More Education Means More Pay
By Kim Sung-jin, Korea Times (December 12, 2005)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/news_view.asp?newsIdx=2773192
(the above link may not lead to the correct page)
Quote:
The monthly pay of workers with bachelor's degrees averaged at 3 million won during the nine months to September, while that of workers with the same length of service but with only high school diploma stood at 2.06 million won.... Those with a master's degree or doctorate earned 4 million won a month on average.


Teacher Labor Markets in Developed Countries
The Future of Children
http://www.futureofchildren.org/information2850/information_show.htm?doc_id=470797


http://www.futureofchildren.org/doc_img/470797.gif

Attracting, Developing and Retaining Effective Teachers - Home Page
http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,3343,en_33873108_33873555_11969545_1_1_1_1,00.html

Do unions have influence and power in Korea?
Teacher Evaluation Plans Lose Teeth
Chosun Ilbo (October 23, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200510/200510230014.html
Quote:
The Ministry of Education and Human Resources has backed down over parts of a plan for new teacher evaluations that have drawn the ire of teachers' unions....
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The program is more ill-fated than I thought!
It got killed before it even started!

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/266275.html
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Hyeon Een



Joined: 24 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: goal for 2010 Reply with quote

tomato wrote:
I heard that the new President is planning to set up a new English program in all the elementary schools.
By 2010, every elementary school in the country will have English classes conducted entirely in English.

Have you ever seen a Korean English teacher who doesn't patter continuously in Korean to the students for 50 minutes?
I haven't.

Korean English teachers won't even speak English to each other.
I have heard of a director who decreed that the English teachers would speak only English to each other.
Since this was inconceivable to them, they stopped speaking to each other entirely.
Some of the teachers even quit because the notion was inconceivable to them.


I think more positively than you with regards to this goal. I don't think it's attainable by 2010, but I certainly think it's attainable in the forseeable future.

I say this because I teach at least two University classes of English education majors each semester; students who want and intend to become English teachers in the public school system. I am frequently blown away by their attitudes, skill and knowledge. These students speak in English to each other in class, they're conversationally fluent, they love teaching and I can't imagine any single one of them being a bad co-teacher in a public school.

My University is probably upper 2nd-tier or maybe lower 1st-tier. They may not pass for a native speaker, but they're incredibly competent in general conversation, and in terms of technical knowledge are far superior to most posters on this forum. If these are the next generation of teachers then I think things are coming along nicely for the next generation of students. As long as their students get enough hours in the week with these teachers in language classes there's no reason why they can't become the next Singapore (or better) in English.

I have hope for the future of English in the youth of Korea because of my English-education students. If every new English teacher in Korea was as good as the average EnglishEd major at my University they wouldn't need to hire native speakers at all.

Oh, and Tomato, I think it is High School classes being conducted in English, rather than Elementary, that is on the table at the moment =)
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not Korean English teachers' competency in English I take issue with,
it's their unwillingness to conduct a class without speaking Korean.
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Hyeon Een



Joined: 24 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomato wrote:
It's not Korean English teachers' competency in English I take issue with,
it's their unwillingness to conduct a class without speaking Korean.


...And I think this is also changing! (Really!)

I already mentioned my students who speak in English to each other, but apart from them..

Last semester I was invited to a class of senior English-ed majors. I was invited by their professor, who has been teaching English education for about 30yrs or more (he is one semester away from compulsory retirement at 65). He conducted the entire class in English. Whether he normally does this or not is not the point; he did it on this day to set an example to his students on how they were to behave when they became qualified teachers.

He used me as a 'model' teacher for some classroom phrases. He did this because these students are going to have to teach their classes in English, not Korean. This professor told me he didn't used to teach these things. He's doing it now (in his last year of teaching) because NOW it's relevant to these potential teachers. In the past it wasn't. Now it is.

I honestly believe that the next generation of teachers will be able to conduct classes in English. I also believe that the previous generation were incapable of doing this, despite their knowledge of English grammar. I have hope for English education =)

Tomato, I know you've been here much longer than me, and you know approximately 10,000,00,000x as much as I do about teaching Kindergarten (my nightmare, Tomato's dream =) ). However I strongly believe that the English teachers who are coming through the ranks NOW are different, better, and are capable of teaching English in English. I really think things have changed even over the last few few years.

I think however I am seeing the 'supply' end of things, and you're seeing the 'receiving' end of things. It might take a couple of years for what I'm seeing to reach you.. but if in 2 yrs time the Korean teachers you come in contact with aren't substantially better than they are now, call me on it =) PM me or resurrect this thread in 2010!
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Atavistic



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: goal for 2010 Reply with quote

tomato wrote:

Have you ever seen a Korean English teacher who doesn't patter continuously in Korean to the students for 50 minutes?
I haven't.


I have two coteachers. One doesn't do a thing in class unless I ask, and then it's usually to reinforce something in Korean after I've done it in English. She speaks Korean to the students 90% of the time and the 10% of the time she speaks English, it's mostly poor English.

The other is fantastic. She speaks English to the children the majority of the time. She used to speak English to the students about 95% of the time, but then the administrators told her that's too much, so now she's down to about 85% English only.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a plan that should indeed be implemented quickly. The important thing is for legislators to understand and voice to the public that results won't be tangible for another generation! This is a long-term goal.

Why? Because the current teachers still rely on the pedagogy comfortable to them. Also, the teachers being currently trained, while considerably better at a wider array of English skills, and apparently more confident in their abilities, is untested. They will be hired and they will be a shot in the arm to the system. Students will hopefully learn in a new way, and be able to utilize their English. The real results will come about when the young students trained in a new way grow up to be teachers themselves. They will represent the break from the old methods.

Personally, while I understand the push for English, I think there are better alternatives. Korea is going to have a tough time making up ground and competiting with Singapore and Hong Kong already, so why play a game with the cards stacked against you? Why not think out of the box?

In my opinion, Korea should mold itself into a multi-lingual society, which, given the geographical proximity to several countries, would be an excellent marketing tool. Foreign lanugage would be mandatory, not English, and education would continue from elementary school through to university; think engineers who speak Farsi, designers who speak French, programers who speak Chinese, ship builders who speak Russian.

English is the quick pill, I understand. But again, the government is ignoring the market function (an activity that is itself culturally embedded). Those who absolutely need English, or who feel that it will increase their marketablility and value in the work force will learn it. How many Canadians had French forced upon them, but can't function in the language? However, those who need French, or those who choose to study it for pleasure or travel purposes do quite well.
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maingman



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Location: left Korea

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re train them

simply re try and then retrain

!
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