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anyangoldboy
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: Re: I'll add my 2 cents |
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| CP wrote: |
I have done both the Public School and the Hagwons as well.
If you can find a good hagwon it's much better than a public school.
EXCEPTION: If the public school offers you at least 2.3 plus housing for only 9AM to 1PM or 1PM to 5PM then take it.
Aside from that.
1. You spend less time at a hagwon than a public school - they have 8-9 hour days. So what if you are only teaching 4 or 5 classes - you still have to sit there. At a hagwon you spend 6 hours there daily and you are out. It might be all teaching time but you do have more free time each day for yourself. If you calculate it out. You'll spend on average an extra 30-40 hours in a public school than in a hagwon a month.
2. Salary is higher at a hagwon. If you are making less than what a public school teacher is then you took a bad job.
3. Vacation in a public school is iffy - you don't know when you get it or exactly how much time you get. It varies from place to place. Some don't even pay for winter or summer vacation. Others you have to sit there all day doing nothing. Others make you do camps. You just don't know.
4. You have more power in a hagwon if you are sure of yourself. Some will disagree with this though.
5. The classes are too big and levels are too mixed in a public school. More difficult to teach something for everyone. Hagwon - a good one has classes by level and much smaller -you see your students actually learn. Some people , like myself care if they learn English. Other teachers may not care and are just putting in time.
6. Also hagwons may be riskier bu I have heard some stories about *beep* happening in public schools too.
7. In all likelihood you will be the only foreigner in a public school, not usually the case in a hagwon.
Done rambling. It's preferences. Take what's important to you |
Basically everything this poster said I wish I had said about why I prefer Hagwons...And I didn't even critize anyone else as well... |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Are "real" public school jobs only available at the start of the semester? I ask because I see tons of PS postings on job boards, and this confuses me. Are they for "midseason replacements"? If so, it seems there'd be a higher likelihood of landing a crappy job (since the last teacher presumably left for a reason).
I know I could ask the recruiters, but I expect to get a more honest answer from people who don't have a financial incentive to get me to take the first job offered. |
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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Public vs. Private (Hagwon) Schools - Advice? |
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| Justice540 wrote: |
I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on Public vs. Private schools in Seoul. My questions are:
1)Has anyone ever worked in both?
2)Which do you find better?
3)If one is better than the other Why?
I'll be going to SK later in the year and want to start researching beforehand. It will be my first year. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
Hogwans' are a crapshoot, so beware. I have worked at two private hogwans. My first hogwan was very nice and I liked the kids. The building was new, it was a large chain but it had great students. I can say that I never encountered problems like cheating on wages and taxes. The problem all of us western teachers had came about because the director was paying huge franchise fees and had other loans on this "mega" school. Three times she paid a week or so late but made a promise. She did pay all of us. However, she was unable to pay the fuel bill. There was absolutley no heat in that school. We were on the east near the DMZ and Sea of Japan, so you can imagine how very cold it was in winter. My students, the young ones, would be very fussy on the coldest days. Sometimes the cold made me feel ill, but I survived.
The other school cheated on wages, paid late, withheld pay, denied the promised benefits, and their school was amazingly grubby with dust. It was hard to breathe in there and no toilet paper or towels were provided in the bathrooms. The environment of that school was depressing, even despite having good and talented students.
My friend's husband worked at a private hogwon near my first one. One day he showed up and the doors were locked. He, like a fool, had worked for this hogwon 11 weeks with no pay. The director promised to pay so he continued. After finding the doors locked, he discovered that the director had filed bankruptcy. Even after I had left, he had still not been paid any of his wages.
So, beware! |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I vote for the private English schools as opposed to the public schools.
(The Korean language distinguishes hagwon and hakyo: English uses the word school more liberally, eg. cooking school, flight school, even universities are called schools.)
There are small classes of children whose parents are eager for them to learn.
The children therefore demonstrate real progress during a year. (Any of your star public school students are the ones who already go to a private English school afetr hours or returned from America.)
A good, hardworking teacher quickly earns enough respect to do with the curriculum and class what he wishes.
I would rather work for a businessman than a bureaucrat. (Good teachers do not usually want to be administrators.) The rationale of business is rational, the rationale of bureaucracy is control.
As for all other arguments concerning hours, remuneration and benefits, they are not worthy to be considered if a man has enough.
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out of it.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. |
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Oreovictim
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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My #1 issue with public schools has do be the number of students. I really do not want to teach 30 or so kids, no thanks. If I could just overlook that, I'd be really tempted to teach at a public school. I'm home in America now, this would be perfect timing to score a public school job, right?
But hagwons aren't that great either. I've known quite a few people who got ripped off in one way or another. (Including me. My last c#$k sucker of a boss decided at the last minute to only give me $850.00 for my flight. When I went to Thailand, I got a cheap ticket back to the U.S. but still had to pay $300.00 out of my own pocket. Once I get a new job, I'm considering writing to a blacklist site.)
The other thing that bugged me about hagwons has to do with the $>education. At my school, like most I'm sure, we could not give the kids an evaluation lower than a "B." So if the kid did nothing and made my life miserable, guess what grade he/she got? Yep, you guessed it, a "B." |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
Are "real" public school jobs only available at the start of the semester? I ask because I see tons of PS postings on job boards, and this confuses me. Are they for "midseason replacements"? If so, it seems there'd be a higher likelihood of landing a crappy job (since the last teacher presumably left for a reason).
I know I could ask the recruiters, but I expect to get a more honest answer from people who don't have a financial incentive to get me to take the first job offered. |
A lot prospective teachers take PS jobs with out doing research. Come to Korea, have a culture shock, realise that they are living in a small town, not many other foreigners in their town and leave before the contract is up generally after the 6 month mark (So they don't pay back flights etc). This generally is not a reflection on the school but the person.
I landed my PS 5 weeks before the end of the summer term, mainly because the previous native teachers contract ran out mid term. It's a peach of a contract. So I didn't have to wait for a hiring period from saying yes to the contract and sending everything off to coming to Korea was 2 and a half weeks.
Easily one of the best decisions I've ever made. Love teaching at my school, just got back from a Korea teachers trip to Geoje Island. I was the only native teacher and there were 20 Korean teachers. Ace trip, such a laugh.
So basically so many PS jobs being available midterm is not always testament to the position but more down the person who left to leave the vacancy. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: I'll add my 2 cents |
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| CP wrote: |
I have done both the Public School and the Hagwons as well.
If you can find a good hagwon it's much better than a public school.
EXCEPTION: If the public school offers you at least 2.3 plus housing for only 9AM to 1PM or 1PM to 5PM then take it.
Aside from that.
1. You spend less time at a hagwon than a public school - they have 8-9 hour days. So what if you are only teaching 4 or 5 classes - you still have to sit there. At a hagwon you spend 6 hours there daily and you are out. It might be all teaching time but you do have more free time each day for yourself. If you calculate it out. You'll spend on average an extra 30-40 hours in a public school than in a hagwon a month.
SOME hakwons. It seems that (from the job sample on this and other boards) that more and more hakwons are asking for 7-8 hour days...never heard of a public school with 9 hour days and some actually let you go after your classes are finished for the day.
2. Salary is higher at a hagwon. If you are making less than what a public school teacher is then you took a bad job.
Top pay scale is around 2.7 million for a P.S. teacher...never heard of a hakwon that pays that much...at least not for 22 classes a week.
3. Vacation in a public school is iffy - you don't know when you get it or exactly how much time you get. It varies from place to place. Some don't even pay for winter or summer vacation. Others you have to sit there all day doing nothing. Others make you do camps. You just don't know.
Vacation is spelled out in the contract. And you get considerably more than at a hakwon. Hakwons on the other hand...now vacation time is indeed iffy.
4. You have more power in a hagwon if you are sure of yourself. Some will disagree with this though.
Power ultimately rests with the kids. If they don't like you and complain...you're gone, even if you are a good teacher. At a public school they have to come anyway.
5. The classes are too big and levels are too mixed in a public school. More difficult to teach something for everyone. Hagwon - a good one has classes by level and much smaller -you see your students actually learn. Some people , like myself care if they learn English. Other teachers may not care and are just putting in time.
Again this depends on the school. My classes tend to be not much bigger than those in the hakwon
6. Also hagwons may be riskier bu I have heard some stories about *beep* happening in public schools too.
This is true, but the risks overall increase with a hakwon
7. In all likelihood you will be the only foreigner in a public school, not usually the case in a hagwon.
This is a good thing. At least that's how I feel about it and so do a number of others.
Done rambling. It's preferences. Take what's important to you |
Just to give the other side of the coin...responses in bold above. |
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Justice540
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: Re: I'll add my 2 cents |
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| Hey Everyone! Thanks for all the great posts so far. I can see now it might just depend on a personal decision. I would mind such a large class in a P.S. really.. I intend to teach back home in Boston and our classes here are at least that large. (in high school some were pushing 35) I might as well get use to it now. Granted, Boston is a completely different enviornment, but I'll take my chances. Thanks again! Good luck to everyone! Keep safe |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: I'll add my 2 cents |
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| CP wrote: |
I have done both the Public School and the Hagwons as well.
If you can find a good hagwon it's much better than a public school.
EXCEPTION: If the public school offers you at least 2.3 plus housing for only 9AM to 1PM or 1PM to 5PM then take it.
Aside from that.
1. You spend less time at a hagwon than a public school - they have 8-9 hour days. So what if you are only teaching 4 or 5 classes - you still have to sit there. At a hagwon you spend 6 hours there daily and you are out. It might be all teaching time but you do have more free time each day for yourself. If you calculate it out. You'll spend on average an extra 30-40 hours in a public school than in a hagwon a month.
2. Salary is higher at a hagwon. If you are making less than what a public school teacher is then you took a bad job.
3. Vacation in a public school is iffy - you don't know when you get it or exactly how much time you get. It varies from place to place. Some don't even pay for winter or summer vacation. Others you have to sit there all day doing nothing. Others make you do camps. You just don't know.
4. You have more power in a hagwon if you are sure of yourself. Some will disagree with this though.
5. The classes are too big and levels are too mixed in a public school. More difficult to teach something for everyone. Hagwon - a good one has classes by level and much smaller -you see your students actually learn. Some people , like myself care if they learn English. Other teachers may not care and are just putting in time.
6. Also hagwons may be riskier bu I have heard some stories about *beep* happening in public schools too.
7. In all likelihood you will be the only foreigner in a public school, not usually the case in a hagwon.
Done rambling. It's preferences. Take what's important to you |
Completely agree with this. It's become a real fad for the PS crowd to dis 학원s on this site but personally I like rolling into the office at 2:30 each day and out at 8 or 9pm. Some of my classes have only 3-5 students so are very easy to teach and control and the maximum is 11. Our 원장님 is very good at disciplining the bad ones when we send them outside and anytime there's been any problems with anything after a bit of discussion its been sorted out.
Having said that, I guess I've been reasonably lucky with my one and I would estimate about 20-30% of them could mess you around in a serious way so it is a bit probably more of a gamble than a PS. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: Re: I'll add my 2 cents |
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[quote="The_Conservative"]
| CP wrote: |
3. Vacation in a public school is iffy - you don't know when you get it or exactly how much time you get. It varies from place to place. Some don't even pay for winter or summer vacation. Others you have to sit there all day doing nothing. Others make you do camps. You just don't know.
Vacation is spelled out in the contract. And you get considerably more than at a hakwon. Hakwons on the other hand...now vacation time is indeed iffy.
This I agree with, lack of vacation time is the worst thing about working at a hagwon
4. You have more power in a hagwon if you are sure of yourself. Some will disagree with this though.
Power ultimately rests with the kids. If they don't like you and complain...you're gone, even if you are a good teacher. At a public school they have to come anyway.
Totally not true at my hagwon, our boss always takes the teacher's side and disciplines the kids.
5. The classes are too big and levels are too mixed in a public school. More difficult to teach something for everyone. Hagwon - a good one has classes by level and much smaller -you see your students actually learn. Some people , like myself care if they learn English. Other teachers may not care and are just putting in time.
Again this depends on the school. My classes tend to be not much bigger than those in the hakwon
Most public schools do have bigger class sizes though.
7. In all likelihood you will be the only foreigner in a public school, not usually the case in a hagwon.
This is a good thing. At least that's how I feel about it and so do a number of others.
I've made four good friends through working at a hagwon, it more than compensates for the one psycho I had to work with IMO but I guess it depends how anti-social you are.
Done rambling. It's preferences. Take what's important to you |
My responses underlined.
In the end I guess it all depends on the hagwon/ public school, but you shouldn't generalise the hagwon horror stories to all hagwons. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
Are "real" public school jobs only available at the start of the semester? I ask because I see tons of PS postings on job boards, and this confuses me. Are they for "midseason replacements"? If so, it seems there'd be a higher likelihood of landing a crappy job (since the last teacher presumably left for a reason).
I know I could ask the recruiters, but I expect to get a more honest answer from people who don't have a financial incentive to get me to take the first job offered. |
I'm the second FT at my school and I was hired in late-May. The first teacher completed her entire contract, they just weren't able to fill vacancies by January and thus she started later.
You have to remember there are more jobs than teachers here. Schools can end up with a gap between teachers that has nothing to do with it being a bad job.
Last edited by Atavistic on Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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anyangoldboy
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I second the friend thing about hagwons...I've made the best friends from them... |
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CP
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Response to Conservative Answers |
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1. I have seen public school jobs that want the teacher there from 8:30 to 5:30 - ( 9 hours a day if I'm not mistaken ). Granted - most are 8:30 to 4:30 or 9:30 - 5:30. Still and 8 hour day. Anyone in a hagwon spending more than 30 hours in the school a week is stupid to begin with. Yes, some days may be 7 or 8 but another day is 4 or 5. It balances to 6 a day.
2. About the 2.7 million for 22 classes. First, I said that a public school does have less classes than a hagwon, but more office time. That salary is for teachers who have masters, toefl degrees and years of experience.
Those people who have those qualifications are teaching in Universities. I don't know anyone in a public school making that much or even close to that much. And yes Hagwons do pay that much - I should know from personal experience.
3. Vacations - I've never seen a hagwon not offer vacation time. That is is a ridiculous comment. It may not always be as much as a public school, but as I said some give only 2 weeks like a hagwon does. How many stories I've heard about teachers sitting in an office all day during school vacation is countless. Of course depends on the school right.
4. A good hagwon owner doesn't listen to only the students and parents. They know children go home and lie. Two of my students just recently got kicked out of the hagwon, one for smoking and the other for threatening a teacher. Granted not all hagwon owners are the same.
Lastly it comes down to the contract, the owner and what's being offered. Take your choice and run with it. |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Response to Conservative Answers |
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| CP wrote: |
| 1. I have seen public school jobs that want the teacher there from 8:30 to 5:30 - ( 9 hours a day if I'm not mistaken ). Granted - most are 8:30 to 4:30 or 9:30 - 5:30. Still and 8 hour day. Anyone in a hagwon spending more than 30 hours in the school a week is stupid to begin with. Yes, some days may be 7 or 8 but another day is 4 or 5. It balances to 6 a day. |
Anyone spending less than thirty hours working a week is probably not preparing homework, carefully marking homework or preparing for classes. I have seen many teachers roll into school ten minutes before their first class and leave one minute before their last class officially ends. Guess how much their students learned?
One of the advantages in fact of a private English school is not less hours, but productive hours. The teacher can craft homework and activities exactly suited for the level and needs of the students without worrying about falling behind the curriculum's schedule. |
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