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Toon Army
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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hmm... shocking. sad. depraved.
I do like this quote:
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| Isnt anyone who straps a bomb top themselves somewhat retarded? |
But all that said, it's quite obvious this article makes no effort to be neutral. What kinda news outlet is that? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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What Al Qaeda is all about.
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Consider what happened on Aug. 14. Four jihadist suicide-bombers blew themselves up in two Iraqi villages, killing more than 500 Kurdish civilians � men, women and babies � who belonged to a tiny pre-Islamic sect known as the Yazidis.
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http://greenpagan.blogspot.com/2007/08/swift-boated-by-bin-laden.html
Back to the topic here is another source.
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Al Qaeda use two Down's syndrome women to blow up 73 people in Baghdad markets
Last updated at 08:59am on 2nd February 2008
Al Qaeda fanatics plumbed sickening new depths yesterday when they turned two women with Down's syndrome into human bombs to kill 70 people in Baghdad.
The unwitting pawns were apparently fooled into wearing explosive vests which were then detonated remotely by mobile phones as the women mingled with crowds.
The two blasts caused carnage at two busy markets in the Iraqi capital's deadliest atrocity since last spring. |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=511678&in_page_id=1811 |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Al Qaeda fanatics plumbed sickening new depths yesterday when they turned two women with Down's syndrome into human bombs to kill 70 people in Baghdad.
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I'll probably be courting some major blowback here, but in my view, strapping the bombs to these women is no worse than detonating the bombs in a market full of civilians. The only difference would be that, in using these unsuspecting women, you kill an extra two innocent people. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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Al Qaeda fanatics plumbed sickening new depths yesterday when they turned two women with Down's syndrome into human bombs to kill 70 people in Baghdad.
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I'll probably be courting some major blowback here, but in my view, strapping the bombs to these women is no worse than detonating the bombs in a market full of civilians. The only difference would be that, in using these unsuspecting women, you kill an extra two innocent people. |
Agreed. And in a morbid way, this is a good sign. They're having to resort to this new tactic to accomplish their goals. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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For whatever it's worth, Juan Cole is skeptical of the Downs Syndrome angle...
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The story that the women had Downs syndrome seems unlikely to be true; you wouldn't trust a sensitive terror plot to someone without their full faculties. Rather, the bombings show that the Sunni Arab guerrillas seeking to destabilize Iraq have not been defeated and are still capable of making a big strike right under the noses of the surge troops. And that is how guerrilla war is-- large conventional forces find it difficult to curb it.
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The question then becomes just how complicated were these plots? Were the women required to do anything besides wander around a crowd for a few minutes?
http://www.juancole.com/ |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Could very well be true. Still sounds like wartime propaganda to me. The truth is we have only the sketchiest idea of what is going on on the ground over there. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'm not exactly fond of AQ/muslim insurgents in any situation, but even this seems beyond them. I seriously doubt that this story is true. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I would think that Allah would not permit the use of the developmentally disabled as armament delivery systems. Then again, if they were disabled fundie muslims might look at them as non-humans, similar to the way the disabled were viewed in the US 50-100 years ago. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| Well, I'm not exactly fond of AQ/muslim insurgents in any situation, but even this seems beyond them. |
I'm not sure why you'd say that. Like I argued earlier, if a guy has no problem killing dozens of innocent civilians(possibly including retarded people) with a bomb, why would he draw the line at tricking one of those innocent civilians, retarded or otherwise, into detonating the bomb? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting question, actually. I've read most of the islamic texts, several times, and can't recall any mention of them at all. I do recall very limited discussion of blindness and amputees. But nothing of mental disabilities exactly.
I suspect that because all humans are born muslim (according to islam...this why converts are called "reverts"), and mentally disabled won't have the cognitive ability (typically) to become apostates, that there is a prohibition on directly killing them. But if they die killing Jews, Christians or other infidels one could make the argument that they then become martyrs and their deaths (voluntary or not) are noble. To kill/die for islam is the highest honour one can achieve in that "faith".
It could really go either way, but I can see a fairly easy justification in islam for sending a mentally disable person on a suicide mission. To put a gun against their head would be prohibited but if they died killing the enemy it would likely be seen as acceptable by the obedients.
But, we are talking about a bronze age idea that reflects the intolerant, Darwinian culture of the time, and as such I'm not so sure theological sanity will prevail. islam is little more than the codifying of Arab cultural supremacy from more than a thousand years ago. I seriously doubt they were building special education schools at the time. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| Well, I'm not exactly fond of AQ/muslim insurgents in any situation, but even this seems beyond them. |
I'm not sure why you'd say that. Like I argued earlier, if a guy has no problem killing dozens of innocent civilians(possibly including retarded people) with a bomb, why would he draw the line at tricking one of those innocent civilians, retarded or otherwise, into detonating the bomb? |
See my answer below your post. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
For whatever it's worth, Juan Cole is skeptical of the Downs Syndrome angle...
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The story that the women had Downs syndrome seems unlikely to be true; you wouldn't trust a sensitive terror plot to someone without their full faculties. Rather, the bombings show that the Sunni Arab guerrillas seeking to destabilize Iraq have not been defeated and are still capable of making a big strike right under the noses of the surge troops. And that is how guerrilla war is-- large conventional forces find it difficult to curb it.
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The question then becomes just how complicated were these plots? Were the women required to do anything besides wander around a crowd for a few minutes?
http://www.juancole.com/ |
It doesn't seem like a sensitive terror plot to just attack civilians in a public place. Now had the target been an important official or a military target he might have a point . but there are plenty of civilians and plenty of civilian targets to attack.
Al Qaeda has in fact used disabled people in the past to commit attacks.
and if anyone were to think this is past them lets remember that Al Qaeda invested in suicide bombers to kill as many of the Yadzi religious sect in northern Iraq as they could. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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- the unknowing sent to kill the unwitting by the inhuman.
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That wraps it up pretty well. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| Well, I'm not exactly fond of AQ/muslim insurgents in any situation, but even this seems beyond them. I seriously doubt that this story is true. |
They've done it before. Only they were using disabled children as was pointed out in another thread a few months back. |
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