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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| If I was a Rep(robate) I would be nervous that all the leadership feels the need to reassure the rank and file that the party isn't falling apart. |
You think?
How would you feel that the 'soul' of your party had his background in mass solicitation? Would that make you feel better?
The GOP is toast. People on here think Clinton or Obama could lose in the general. That's ridiculous. |
Giants win the superbowl.
Plus the US is a conservative nation more than people think.
Clinton in 1992 won because of the end of the cold war , Ross Perot , and cause he ran as a "new Democrat "
You would have to go back to 1976 for the last time a liberal candidate won. |
Joo, you think McCain(/Romney) is going to win?
Place your bet. Tell me the NGO/charity that you want me to donate to. Set the dollar amount. Cap is $50. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think McCain has a good chance. I will bet you if you want . Not others here.
Look at Florida and Ohio and the State polls.
Neither Hillary nor Obama is a Bill Clinton.
Right now you can look at the realclearpolitics polls. You will actually see that McCain is running slightly ahead of the Democrats in the general election.
The country wants a Democrat but Hillary has high negatives and Obama still hasn't gotten the heavy scrutiny that will come in a general election.
In 2000 Gore couldn't win despite peace and prosperity.
Clinton ran as new Democrat otherwise he would not have won in 1992 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You would have to go back to 1976 for the last time a liberal candidate won. |
You consider Jimmy Carter a liberal  Only in comparison to Ronald Reagan. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Does someone have to be Eleanor Roosevelt to qualify as "a liberal?" Carter, the Clintons, and Gore: liberals. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You would have to go back to 1976 for the last time a liberal candidate won. |
You consider Jimmy Carter a liberal Only in comparison to Ronald Reagan. |
Or Bill Clinton. Or Lyndon Johnson. Or even John Kennedy. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Last hundred years in brief:
Conservative politics and McKinley's victory smashed Populism, farmers' uprisings, and apparent anarchy 1896. A shaky state of affairs -- Socialists, Progressives, Liberals, and Conservatives, and a predominant classically-Liberal economic model prevailed through the Depression.
FDR inaugurated a marked turn to the left 1932. Massive state and state invervention in the economy and elsewhere. Social reform. Accelerated through LBJ. Even Eisenhower got on board. Continued through Nixon, believe it or not (EPA, Clean Air Act, etc.).
Vietnam and Watergate unleashed the same, according to some Americans, who feared it, anarchist-like forces that threatened to overthrow the American govt in the 1880s and 1890s. Shaky state of affairs again through Ford and Carter, although still mostly continuing on FDR's pathway.
Carter moved to the right 1979-1980. Reagan ushered in a marked shift to the right. Thatcher joined him from across the Atlantic. Neoliberalism and privatization, etc. We continue to follow this pattern now. I would say that Clinton/Gore made a serious effort to break the pattern, esp. 1993ish, and that is why I am comfortable calling them liberals even if the confines within which they operated were not conducive to leftist politics.
In any case, round and round and round it goes; where it stops, nobody knows...
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Also Reagan unlike Carter faced down the Soviet Union.
Bill Clinton had the benefit of a peace dividend
And Bill Clinton who was a good president decided that Bin Laden could not be convicted in a US court and thus Bin Laden was allowed to go free.
worst of all Jimmy Carter allowed Ayatollah Khomeni to come to power in Iran.
The US ought to have gotten Khomeni when he was in France, and thrown him in a secret prison somewhere never to be heard from again.
What would the situation for the US be if Bin Laden and Khomeni were out of the picture? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TWG you think the US did the right thing by not getting Bin Laden and Khomeni out of the picture? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| If I was a Rep(robate) I would be nervous that all the leadership feels the need to reassure the rank and file that the party isn't falling apart. |
You think?
How would you feel that the 'soul' of your party had his background in mass solicitation? Would that make you feel better?
The GOP is toast. People on here think Clinton or Obama could lose in the general. That's ridiculous. |
i'm sure there is some proverb that says arrogance brings down the mighty.
Don't be so co-cky now. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| If I was a Rep(robate) I would be nervous that all the leadership feels the need to reassure the rank and file that the party isn't falling apart. |
You think?
How would you feel that the 'soul' of your party had his background in mass solicitation? Would that make you feel better?
The GOP is toast. People on here think Clinton or Obama could lose in the general. That's ridiculous. |
i'm sure there is some proverb that says arrogance brings down the mighty.
Don't be so co-cky now. |
BB,
What makes you think the Dems are mighty? Hell, what makes you think I'm mighty?
A little bit of confidence wouldn't hurt right about now, especially when certain people, I won't name names, are considering voting GOP! |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I knew you were a political hack, but that was pretty bad, even for you.
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
With all due respect:
Deficits were mostly caused by the business cycle. |
Deficits in the late 70s were caused by the upsurge in oil prices. And the stock market fall of 2001 and the recent prime morgage crisis have also played a role in the deficite.
So yeah, the bsiness cycle does play a role.
However, when you combine tax cuts with arms build ups and wars, you start to spend much more money than you're taking in.
| Quote: |
| US GDP has also gone from 3 trillion to 14 trillion. |
What about inflation?
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| Congress has had a lot to do with the growth in government. |
And who controlled the congress from 1992-2006?
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| US entitlement problems would be solved if the age where people can get social security and Medicare were raised to reflect reality. |
Legitimate, but a red-hering in the context of your post on this forum.
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| Also Reagan unlike Carter faced down the Soviet Union. |
Is this the same Reagan who cut and run from Lebanon?
The same Reagan who sold weapons to the Iranians?
The same Reagan who sold and provided weapons to the mujuhadin in Afghanistan?
| Quote: |
| And Bill Clinton who was a good president decided that Bin Laden could not be convicted in a US court and thus Bin Laden was allowed to go free. |
He did make efforts to kill the man. Not successful and he could of done a hell of a lot better.
But what did Bush ever do in regards to Bin Ladin prior to 9/11?
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| worst of all Jimmy Carter allowed Ayatollah Khomeni to come to power in Iran. |
Again, Reagan sold weapons the the Khomeni regime a few years later.
And his Republican predasesor Nixon let Vietnam fall to the Vietkong.
| Quote: |
| The US ought to have gotten Khomeni when he was in France, and thrown him in a secret prison somewhere never to be heard from again. |
What ifs don't cut it. Because the revolution would still have likely occured. The Shah was hated in Iran and he had a lot of enemies.
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| What would the situation for the US be if Bin Laden and Khomeni were out of the picture? |
Somebody would of taken their place.
Leaders arte necessary, but ideas a much stronger.
As long as the Americans continue their presence and hypocritical policies in the Middle East, hatred for them (legitimate or not) will continue. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| If I was a Rep(robate) I would be nervous that all the leadership feels the need to reassure the rank and file that the party isn't falling apart. |
You think?
How would you feel that the 'soul' of your party had his background in mass solicitation? Would that make you feel better?
The GOP is toast. People on here think Clinton or Obama could lose in the general. That's ridiculous. |
i'm sure there is some proverb that says arrogance brings down the mighty.
Don't be so co-cky now. |
BB,
What makes you think the Dems are mighty? Hell, what makes you think I'm mighty?
A little bit of confidence wouldn't hurt right about now, especially when certain people, I won't name names, are considering voting GOP! |
saying the gop is toast. i think that's jumping the gun. let's see how they react to whoever gets the nomination, and how they rally (or don't) behind him. I wouldn't be so quick to say the GOP is in trouble just quite yet. If they think McCain is a traitor or a lost cause, then yes, I will admit you are right. If not, i definitely think you're jumping the gun. The GOP might be in turmoil now, but they are much better organized the Democrats historically speaking.
Watch the wire? If so, I got two word for you: Clay Davis.
If not, watch it! |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you're underestimating Obama if you don't think he has the same or bigger appeal now than Clinton did in '92? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| I think you're underestimating Obama if you don't think he has the same or bigger appeal now than Clinton did in '92? |
naw, if obama wins the nomination, the gop is toast. I won't argue with you there. Hillary is special though. Ann Coulter might be a bit nuts, but the rest of them? nothing better to bring republicans together like the clintons. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="endo"]
| Quote: |
| Wow, I knew you were a political hack, but that was pretty bad, even for you. |
You do know I voted for Gore in 2000. I am just more objective than most of the anti US people on this board.
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
With all due respect:
Deficits were mostly caused by the business cycle. |
Deficits in the late 70s were caused by the upsurge in oil prices. And the stock market fall of 2001 and the recent prime morgage crisis have also played a role in the deficite.
| Quote: |
So yeah, the bsiness cycle does play a role.
However, when you combine tax cuts with arms build ups and wars, you start to spend much more money than you're taking in. |
The US can not do its way of life if it is under threat.
The cold war was justified so was the war on terror.
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| US GDP has also gone from 3 trillion to 14 trillion. |
| Quote: |
| What about inflation? |
Good question, the US also has infrastructure.
| Quote: |
And who controlled the congress from 1992-2006? |
1994 to 2006.
In 2004 all the Democrats were for all the non military spending increases.
they also control congress during other times.
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| Legitimate, but a red-hering in the context of your post on this forum. |
That is the major deficit problem the US faces. Entitlements.
The budget deficit and even the nation debt is manageable.
| Quote: |
| Also Reagan unlike Carter faced down the Soviet Union. |
| Quote: |
Is this the same Reagan who cut and run from Lebanon? |
Wasn't perfect and each situation is different
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| The same Reagan who sold weapons to the Iranians? |
Yes , but if Iraq and Iran destroyed each other then the US would not have the problem it has today.
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The same Reagan who sold and provided weapons to the mujuhadin in Afghanistan? |
The Soviet Union was out to destroy the US. The cold war was defensive and justified.
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He did make efforts to kill the man. Not successful and he could of done a hell of a lot better.
But what did Bush ever do in regards to Bin Ladin prior to 9/11? |
they both made mistakes
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| worst of all Jimmy Carter allowed Ayatollah Khomeni to come to power in Iran. |
That would have stopped it
| Quote: |
Again, Reagan sold weapons the the Khomeni regime a few years later. |
It made very little difference overall
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And his Republican predasesor Nixon let Vietnam fall to the Vietkong. |
different situation.
The US got the better of the USSR during the cold war.
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What ifs don't cut it. Because the revolution would still have likely occured. The Shah was hated in Iran and he had a lot of enemies. |
could not have been worse than Khomeni.
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Somebody would of taken their place.
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Not worse than them
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Leaders arte necessary, but ideas a much stronger. |
without the leader they just turn into angry mobs.
You do know that most mideast regimes have been very successful in staying in power cause they go after their enemies very effectively
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As long as the Americans continue their presence and hypocritical policies in the Middle East, hatred for them (legitimate or not) will continue. |
Why don't you tell us about them?
I can't answer until you explain what you mean.
It is a popular cliche, but that is about all it is.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:03 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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