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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Evidence for what? Evolution. Yes. Provided previously. |
no Sherlock! the scientific evidence of reproducing life from nothing!
im still waiting for the scientific evidence from the experiment where they produced life without a parent! im sorry I must have missed that in the science journal. could you please send me a link to the results of that lab experiment please..
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No. If you understood basic English, you'd see I never said anything about proof. Evidence and proof are two different things. I've explained this to you countless times before. I gave you, for example, the analogy of a court trial. You sure you don't have a lot of Albanian blood in your Italian lineage? Nothing anyone tells you seems to sink in.
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wow not only are you conceited you are also a racist!
well do you have evidence to show a successful experiment where life has been created from nothing or not?
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| Is the site a creationist site? Then any answer that doesn't involve "god did it" would be a poor answer to those questions. If it was from a legit science site, then there are hypotheses and evidence in answer. |
it doesn�t matter if it�s a science fiction site! fact is you can�t answer those questions with evidence! just some flash in the pan scientist giving hypotheses. that is not fact or proof of life being created from nothing
until you can reproduce the experiment in a lab you have nothing!
just like one of your cronies told me about GHOSTS!
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Now get busy on those links and shut up about evolution and evidence/proof until you can tell me specifically what is wrong. Here they are again, idiot.
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I'm still waiting for the lab results!
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| I don't have proof. I have evidence. How much evidence will convince you? |
evidence? evidence of life being created from nothing? can you please show me the hard evidence. better yet a scientific reproduction orchestrated in a lab will suffice! I mean scientist have reproduced life from nothing to back their theory haven�t they???
you guys wouldn�t be dumb like Christians to believe in something without actually having the proof now would you?? 
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| It's easy to demonstrate complex organic material not only forms naturally in space but on earth in conditions know to exist on the early earth. It is easy to demonstrate some systems can become self replicating. It is not a stretch to imagine one such system of organic molecules becoming self replicating. If you really want to know more, read Dawkins The Selfish Gene. |
its ok, you can just link me to the experiment where DAWKINS has actually reproduced his hypothesis in a lab to show the world he is right!
until then its nothing more than a just that wishful thinking!!
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| I want compelling evidence photographs are ghosts, not just camera errors. I want compelling evidence EVP is ghost talk, not just EM interference. I want compelling evidence reports of ghosts are of an undiscovered entity not just known failings of human observation. You propose a new entity. Back it up with good evidence. A 100 can say they've seen ghost, fairies, Bigfoot, or a dinosaur in the Congo. Believe in any of them as an article of faith but if you want it added to the taxonomy then you need to offer the evidence for this new entity. |
what you mean you want some guy to write up a theory on paper and connect the dots to a problem which theoretically could work and then say here SEE here is a possible hypotheses ! and then that will be ok!
so basically take a guess but just make it look scientific like what scientist are doing everyday? no thanks! Where I come from that�s just blowing wind!
so we agree on something!
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My point here is that there is an incredible amount of evidence for evolution, far more than any one person can digest, and that it is a vital field, still growing and still producing new results. All those papers don't get published unless they contain some new observation, a new experiment, a new test of the idea�and evolution has weathered them all.
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except reproducing life from nothing! which actually is the key to all the theory! without that key! there basically is nothing!
just hot air!!
and if that podcast is yours zac! then its still lacking!
Evolutionists currently invoke the "primeval soup" to expand the "warm little pond" into a larger venue, the oceans. They aim to spontaneously generate the first cell so they must thicken the salt water with (take a breath) polysaccharides, lipids, amino acids, alpha helixes, polypeptide chains, assembled quaternary protein subunits, and nucleotides, all poised to self-combine into functional cellular structures, energy systems, long-chain proteins and nucleic acids.4Then during an electrical storm, just the right mix of DNA, mRNA, ribosomes, cell membranes and enzymes are envisioned in the right place at the right time and the first cell is thunderbolted together and springs to life.5 That marvelous first cell, the story goes, filled the oceans with progeny competing in incredible polysaccharide, lipid, amino acid, nucleotide, and cannibalistic feasts.
you guys have problems with GOD sitting in a cloud throwing lighten bolts
hahahahaha whats the difference here!
mind me too.. you do understand that you dont have PROOF of the theory that all life began in a soup right?
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| Accordingly, the probability of evolving one molecule of iso-1-cytochrome c, a small protein common in plants and animals, is an astounding one chance in 2.3 times ten billion vigintillion. The magnitude of this impossibility may be appreciated by realizing that ten billion vigintillion is one followed by 75 zeros. Or to put it in evolutionary terms, if a random mutation is provided every second from the alleged birth of the universe, then to date that protein molecule would be only 43% of the way to completion. Yockey concluded, "The origin of life by chance in a primeval soup is impossible in probability in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is impossible in probability |
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| Richard Dawkins implicitly agreed with Yockey by stating, "Suppose we want to suggest, for instance, that life began when both DNA and its protein-based replication machinery spontaneously chanced to come into existence. We can allow ourselves the luxury of such an extravagant theory, provided that the odds against this coincidence occurring on a planet do not exceed 100 billion billion to one."8The 100 billion billion is 1020. So Dawkins' own criterion for impossible in probability, one chance in more than 1020, has been exceeded by 50 orders of magnitude for only one molecule of one small protein. Now that Professor Dawkins has joined the ranks of non-believers in evolution, politesse forbids inquiring whether he considers himself "ignorant, stupid, insane, or wicked |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
Evidence for what? Evolution. Yes. Provided previously. |
no Sherlock! the scientific evidence of reproducing life from nothing! |
I don't think you're repeating yourself enough Mindmetoo. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Biblethumper wrote: |
There are no ghosts.
The souls of the reprobate go to hell to wait for the judgement day.
The souls of believers at death, being made perfect in holiness, do immediately pass into glory, and thier bodies, still being united to Christ, do rest in their graves till the resurrection. |
Biblethumper, where's your Bible versus?
And not every Bible believer believes the way you beileve about the afterlife. You'll find all sorts of explanations from Christians on this subject. There is no consensus. Ever heard of purgatory? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
no Sherlock! the scientific evidence of reproducing life from nothing! |
I don't have that any more than I can reproduce an ice age in the lab to demonstrate the formation of morains. Again, the Miller/Urey Experiment demonstrates how complex organic compounds can be produced by the earth's initial conditions. We know there are self replicating systems. It's really not a stretch to put 2+2 together. Save in your mind.
The evidence for evolution has been presented to you many times.
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| wow not only are you conceited you are also a racist! |
You deny your Albanian heritage?
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what you mean you want some guy to write up a theory on paper and connect the dots to a problem which theoretically could work and then say here SEE here is a possible hypotheses ! and then that will be ok!
so basically take a guess but just make it look scientific like what scientist are doing everyday? no thanks! Where I come from that�s just blowing wind! |
Go back and read what I've written.
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My point here is that there is an incredible amount of evidence for evolution, far more than any one person can digest, and that it is a vital field, still growing and still producing new results. All those papers don't get published unless they contain some new observation, a new experiment, a new test of the idea�and evolution has weathered them all.
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Who wrote that?
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you guys have problems with GOD sitting in a cloud throwing lighten bolts
hahahahaha whats the difference here! |
The difference is you're committing the fallacy of personal incredulity.
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| Accordingly, the probability of evolving one molecule of iso-1-cytochrome c, a small protein common in plants and animals, is an astounding one chance in 2.3 times ten billion vigintillion. The magnitude of this impossibility may be appreciated by realizing that ten billion vigintillion is one followed by 75 zeros. Or to put it in evolutionary terms, if a random mutation is provided every second from the alleged birth of the universe, then to date that protein molecule would be only 43% of the way to completion. Yockey concluded, "The origin of life by chance in a primeval soup is impossible in probability in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is impossible in probability |
Sure if the mechanism worked like that. But it doesn't. It's a strawman argument. Change does not come through simple point mutations.
In any regard, throw out whatever gap you wish. It's pointless. The point here is science doesn't simply make a claim about the origin of life or about species. They do the hard work. They slowly add lines of evidence in support of their claims. Experimentation, digging in the desserts of China. They subject their findings to the criticism of their peers. If they mess up they get blasted. If they make unsupported claims, they get blasted.
Now lets turn our attention to ghosts. They produce photos. Peers note they look like camera errors. They produce more such photos, never addressing the question of what is a camera error and what is a true ghost photo. They may run around with emeters and tape recorders. And scientists do look at their data, find it uncompelling, suggest controls, and are simply ignored.
So there you go. Real science is about hoeing a very long, hard row and actually starting. Ghost hunting is just crap. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I don't have that any more than I can reproduce an ice age in the lab to demonstrate the formation of morains. Again, the Miller/Urey Experiment demonstrates how complex organic compounds can be produced by the earth's initial conditions. We know there are self replicating systems. It's really not a stretch to put 2+2 together. Save in your mind.
The evidence for evolution has been presented to you many times.
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so basically you are admitting that you don�t have the proof!
no one is asking you to reproduce an ice age! just asking you to put all the elements into a pot and create life! or at least some kind of life...
just for your reference! it�s been tried many times, if you read a science journal once and a while you would no this! every attempt has falling flat on its face!
the evidence of evolution has been presented.. YES but istill that theory even though is VERY probable it still has many holes in it. which im sure you know... so let�s not go too far with that ok...
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| You deny your Albanian heritage? |
it�s the way you word it!
next time use some respect when talking to others...
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| Go back and read what I've written. |
ok I read it...
so basically you want me to slap a theory together and if it doesn�t fit 100% lets just use occams razor! seems simple enough...
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| The difference is you're committing the fallacy of personal incredulity. |
no! I'm letting you no how you sound! because you are also using Fallacy when you break down your theory into pieces! reality check! really you have nothing concrete! and you know it!
because if you did! the world would stop for a second. all the Christian scientist, all the agnostics and every other scientist in the world would go
WOW there is it! we have the PROOF people! the debate is over!
but we are not there yet are we!!?!
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| Sure if the mechanism worked like that. But it doesn't. It's a strawman argument. Change does not come through simple point mutations. |
and you know this for a fact do you? you have done the scientific experiment
you can say for certain? maybe you can explain the amino acid -protein
theory how it doesn�t lock together? you have an answer for that?! because if you do l'd love to knock you down! please please tell me you have the answer to this mystery!!
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| It's pointless. The point here is science doesn't simply make a claim about the origin of life or about species. |
it doesn�t make a claim!? yes it does! science always makes claims until it can be refuted! that�s what arrogant scientists do...
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Experimentation, digging in the desserts of China. They subject their findings to the criticism of their peers. If they mess up they get blasted. If they make unsupported claims, they get blasted.
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you are talking about evidence in hand! I agree with this! but when you talk about hypotheses and theories without 100% proof to back the claim then when you examine your claim its nothing more the same as the Christians calling GOD! reality is we just don�t have enough evidence yet to make such a HUGE CLAIM! without FAITH!
that�s all it is right now...
but scientists present a very intelligent plausible argument! but still that�s all it is 2008! a scientific claim! but I have faith in science they will be the ones who bring us the answers... but we dont have it now!
Too many holes in both camps!
at least we both agree that the debate is far from over GOD VS NO GOD!
of course its over for the christians and atheists becuase they are both drivin by faith.. but to the real world who doesnt sit in either camp
its far from over..
ok back to GHOST...
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| They may run around with emeters and tape recorders. And scientists do look at their data, find it uncompelling, suggest controls, and are simply ignored. |
umm well their are actually scientists in the field of ghost and paranormal research...
Albert Einstein taught that energy couldn't be created or destroyed.
It can only be changed from one form of energy into another form of energy.
This means that no matter what is done energy cannot be destroyed.
So that being the case could in one theory explain the possible existence of ghosts.
Energy as a rule cannot be destroyed so it must still be around.
The Theory of Conservation of Energy.
now that�s one theory but again how can we prove this?
there is evidence to show the existence of ghosts just no proof. but that shouldn�t matter because a lot of evidence lacks proof in science today.
since ghosts are not physical in the usual sense they cannot be proven scientifically can they? to prove their existence is almost impossible scientifically because they are not 3-d objects and science can only prove something actually exists by being able to prove its existence by the natural laws of physics and biology and ghosts don�t fall into that category
Parapsychology is science! and they are working on this matter...
but until then we can�t reproduce a ghost in a lab just as you can�t reproduce life out of nothing! and we both can�t reproduce the ice age!
doesn�t mean it�s not true!
plenty of photos and testimonies out there...
actually don�t know if you watch Saturday mysterious on CNTV on cable here. its in Korean they present some very interesting arguments
testimonies and photos which seem very possible! of course some are rubbish. but some of them just can�t be explained!
so many paranormal things just can�t be explained! sure we can have a theory but that doesn�t mean it�s not possible it�s the paranormal...
just like all things! it all comes down to a little faith also.. |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Biblethumper, where's your Bible verses? |
| Biblethumper wrote: |
There are no ghosts.
The souls of the reprobate go to hell to wait for the judgement day.
The souls of believers at death, being made perfect in holiness, do immediately pass into glory,(Luke 23:43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 16:23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Philippians 1:23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8. Therefore we arealways confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (for we walk by faith, not by sight:) we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.)
and their bodies, still being united to Christ, (1 Thessalonians 4:14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him)
do rest in their graves till the resurrection.(Romans 8:23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
1 Thessalonians 4:14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.) |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
so basically you are admitting that you don�t have the proof! |
I don't know how many more times I can say science does not offer proof of anything but lines of evidence.
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| It's pointless. The point here is science doesn't simply make a claim about the origin of life or about species. |
it doesn�t make a claim!? yes it does! science always makes claims until it can be refuted! that�s what arrogant scientists do... |
Dude. READ. It doesn't make a claim and then walks away from the table. Read the next sentences. It makes a claim AND then does the science to support the claim.
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Albert Einstein taught that energy couldn't be created or destroyed.
It can only be changed from one form of energy into another form of energy.
This means that no matter what is done energy cannot be destroyed.
So that being the case could in one theory explain the possible existence of ghosts.
Energy as a rule cannot be destroyed so it must still be around. |
Energy is just the ability of a force to do work. There is no evidence of an energy that retains a memory.
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| Parapsychology is science! and they are working on this matter... |
Sure they've been working on it for 100+ years and can't offer one single repeatable experiment. yawn.
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| plenty of photos and testimonies out there... |
Photos and people are quite capable of being in error. You need to demonstrate the photo in question isn't the product of a camera error or a hoax. Again, not sure why I have to repeat that. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I don't know how many more times I can say science does not offer proof of anything but lines of evidence. |
so holding fossils of dinosaur bones is not proof of the dinosaur?
it�s a line of evidence? I don�t get what you mean.
science never uses proof for anything?? just evidence?
what the hell are you talking about now!!?
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Dude. READ. It doesn't make a claim and then walks away from the table. Read the next sentences. It makes a claim AND then does the science to support the claim.
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does the science to support the claim with what?? if it doesn�t have proof or evidence then it�s just starting something and saying "now hang on guys we will one day prove this" well then Parapsychology has made such a claim so be patient!
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Energy is just the ability of a force to do work. There is no evidence of an energy that retains a memory.
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who ever said ghosts have memory! and just because there is no evidence of it doesn�t mean we can say for sure.. the human brain is so complex we will probably never fully understand it or how we create life!..
the paranormal is so bazaar and complex it�s hard to comprehend it..
but if something is at work there it�s beyond our science to fully understand it.. and if science did unlock the keys to it.. do you think your government would want you knowing about it? or UFOS for that matter..
but anyway, just becuase we dont have the evidence or proof now doesnt matter mean we wont get it..
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| Sure they've been working on it for 100+ years and can't offer one single repeatable experiment. yawn. |
100 years is nothing on a human time line! NOTHING!
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| Photos and people are quite capable of being in error. You need to demonstrate the photo in question isn't the product of a camera error or a hoax. Again, not sure why I have to repeat that |
hey dude. what do you think scientists and paranormal researchers and debunkers are doing everyday all over the world! everyone wants to no for sure if ghosts are real or not! im sure it would interest you to if their was a ghost caught in a bottle! might change your whole thoughts on life!
there are plenty of photos out there which have been examined by the best technicians working today and some of them say its 99.9% impossible that it�s mechanical error or a hoax! not to mention all the eye witnesses who said who were in the group pictures and all of a sudden the bride�s dead father appears in the picture behind everyone!! or other examples or such.. many pictures can be tampered with, that�s why they get sent for testing.. and many of them come back with no results! because as they say well that ones a mystery! either the guys who performed the hoax were the best technicians working in SFX or something and did it so well that�s impossible to trace or well it�s just the unexplained! like I said so many mysteries on earth! not just paranormal but also in science! so many in science for that matter! So if it�s ok for science then why not the paranormal! |
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on_me_head_son
Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Itaewonguy. I think you don't really understand the scientific process. Here's something that might help you out.
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Biblethumper wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Biblethumper, where's your Bible verses? |
| Biblethumper wrote: |
There are no ghosts.
The souls of the reprobate go to hell to wait for the judgement day.
The souls of believers at death, being made perfect in holiness, do immediately pass into glory,(Luke 23:43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 16:23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Philippians 1:23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8. Therefore we arealways confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (for we walk by faith, not by sight:) we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.)
and their bodies, still being united to Christ, (1 Thessalonians 4:14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him)
do rest in their graves till the resurrection.(Romans 8:23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
1 Thessalonians 4:14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.) |
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Ghosts...Spirits Are In The Bible
I write this to show the religious that yes, the bible does contain ghosts, or "spirits." I feel it necessary to correct the mis-thinking that religion has created by stating, "ghosts are impossible...because when one dies, they are either in heaven or hell." This is incorrect. First of all, heaven is simply the realm of spirit; and hell is the state of a mind bound by fear created through mis-thinking. Religious doctrines create much of the fear that places people in a self-created hell or prison of the mind. Secondly, ghosts are possible because the spirit realm and physical realm co-exist; yet are on different planes. Thirdly, some ghosts may not be people on the other side; they could be residual energy or thoughts left over from traumatic or emotional past events. The bible is full of "paranormal" activity...why not ghosts?
Ghosts and spirits are one in the same - they are people on the other side of the grave...in the afterlife, if you will. They are common in scripture, if you look for them mentioned within the bible. One of the first verses that most are aware of is in I Samuel 28:15, where Saul has a medium, "call up" the prophet Samuel from the other side of the grave:
"And Samuel saith to Saul, Why hast thou troubled me, to bring me up?"
Most christians will bury their heads and come up with an excuse for this scripture that God allowed this for one occasion. Or they may say this wasn't a ghost but Samuel was resurrected back to life. Or they may even say that this wasn't Samuel at all, but a deception from the woman - a trick. Yet, the scripture is very clear that this was Samuel; and as Samuel had died and crossed over to the other side...that would make him a spirit or ghost.. This passage should also plainly show that mediums can have contact with people on the other side. This medium, whom Saul used, saw many people on the other side, when she was calling up Samuel. One should also note in this verse, that Samuel had maintained his form of an old man wearing a mantel, just like many documented ghost sightings of apparitions, report the ghost to be dressed in "period dress" from their own time era, here on earth.
Moving into the new testament, we see Jesus having "appeared" to many after his resurrection. To "appear" indicates the idea of manifesting from the invisible to the visible, just as a spirit or ghost might manifest, from the spirit to the physical realm. It is interesting to note that he "appeared" to Simon (Luke 24:34); and he "appeared" to Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9). Jesus "appeared" to two of his followers in a different form that was not recognizable to them. What? I mean they had a conversation with him and still didn't recognize Jesus physically! Yes, the scripture says:
Mark 16:12, "...to two of them, as they are going into a field, walking, he was manifested in another form."
He also "appeared" to the eleven disciples and stood in the midst of them during their conversation (Luke 24:36). Can you imagine that? He manifested right before their eyes from the realm of spirit. But what is interesting to note is Jesus' statement concerning their fear of him "appearing" right before their eyes:
Luke 24:39 "...handle me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see me having."
Well, at first blush, one might argue, hey, Jesus wasn't a spirit or ghost because he had flesh and bone. I would have to agree, but I might add that Jesus still was "appearing" like a ghost or spirit might do. Does flesh and bone "appear" out of thin air? However, the biggest point might be missed if one does not consider Jesus' statement further, about not being a spirit or ghost...he was in effect stating that spirits (ghosts) do exist, but that he was not like them!
This common belief in ghosts is found in another new testament passage, as well. You may remember Jesus walking on the water towards his disciples who were in a boat on the sea. The verse in Matthew 14:26 states:
"and the disciples having seen him walking upon the sea, were troubled saying, 'It is an apparition,' and from the fear they cried out."
Apparitions were obviously believed to exist and even by the followers of Jesus who were learning rapidly about the spirit realm from him. Other people obviously believed in ghosts during Jesus' time on earth, because they "appeared" in the city of Jerusalem after Jesus' resurrection:
Matthew 27:52-53, "and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose; and having come forth out of the tombs after Jesus' rising, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."
The writer of Hebrews, (probably the apostle Paul) mentions the fact of spirits being all around us, in Hebrews 12:1,
"Therefore, we also having so great a cloud of witnesses set around us."
This to me, is confirmation of the spirit and physical realms co-existing with one another, but on different planes. It is a spiritual truth, that what exists here on earth, must first exist in the spirit realm; for spirit is the life-giving force behind all. And that spirit is God. God is life. The bible proclaims in the Lord's prayer,
"On earth (physical realm), as it is (first) in heaven (the realm of spirit)."
But there is one last bible passage I wish to share that many overlook that proves the manifestation of spirits from the spirit realm into this physical world. That verse can be found in Mark 9:4, in the famous Mount of Transfiguration passage:
"and there appeared to them, Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus."
Wow! This passage not only proves that spirits can manifest here, but it shows a very important spiritual truth, as well. Jesus spoke with people on the other side of the grave. Therefore, those on the other side of the grave can speak to us! The religious will try and explain this passage away; but the fact remains, it is not only possible for ghosts to exist, but Jesus, who is to be our example, shows us some spirits communicate with us! Why did Jesus choose only to reveal this truth to James, John and Peter? To us, this truth has been spoken against by traditional christian doctrine for years. Yet, Jesus felt it important enough to reveal to these three disciples what was really going on "behind the scenes." Jesus seemed to understand quite a lot about what was going on "behind the veil" of this physical world. Perhaps, we should follow his example and not fear ghosts; but seek to understand the truth of the spirit realm.
Copyright 2003 JesusReligion.Com |
http://www.jesusreligion.com/ghosts_bible.html
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Although each team member in M.G.H.S. are God fearing People with a belief in the Bible and following Gods rules. We wanted to provide our Christian guest and skeptics with a page on what the Bible says about ghost. Now we will give some insights to each scripture, but the actual translation of the scripture will be done by you and what your heart tells you, not to mention that a person needs to pray as to what the scriptures say and for God to give you knowledge and wisdom on these scriptures. So please do not take just the one scripture and take it as law, you have to research the scripture in the Bible and learn what you can about it, in order to make a determination on what the scripture means.
Luke 24:38-40 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Luke 24:36-38 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
Mark 6:48-50 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out,
Matthew 14:25-27 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.
In the above scriptures, the disciples are referring to Christ walking on water. But, there must have been reports of sightings of ghost in that time era for them to refer to Christ as a Ghost. In the first scripture, Christ himself describes a ghost, "a ghost does not have flesh and bones". So with these scriptures, would not this indicate that ghosts do exist?
1 Peter 3 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
In the above scripture, they are referring to Christ preaching to the spirits in prison. This again, would confirm that even the spirits are still open to Gods word.
1 John 4 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.
In order for us to test the spirits, this must mean that spirits do exists. So again the above scripture validates that spirits do exist and what we must do to see if they are from God.
All the above scriptures are for study and should be researched. But, with this in mind, it does appear that even the Bible states that Ghost Exist, as well as spirits. So please do not take just the one verse out of context, but research the whole area of the scripture and you will get a better understanding of what the Bible says on Ghost. |
http://www.ghosthaunting.com/html/ghost_and_the_bible.html |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="itaewonguy"]
| mindmetoo wrote: |
I don't know how many more times I can say science does not offer proof of anything but lines of evidence. |
so holding fossils of dinosaur bones is not proof of the dinosaur?
it�s a line of evidence? I don�t get what you mean.
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That's obvious.
Sorry, until you grasp the nature of evidence and scientific theory, something I've tried to explain to you several times now, the rest of what you sputter is just hot air. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we're seeing the "Okay, whatever, shut up" point where the person debating the Drunk Logic-user gives up because the ulcer isn't worth being right over. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| I think we're seeing the "Okay, whatever, shut up" point where the person debating the Drunk Logic-user gives up because the ulcer isn't worth being right over. |
 I don't know, but I'm starting to have nightmares about ghosts riding around on dinosaurs and it's starting to freak me out. |
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Funkdafied
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Location: In Da House
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Wow, there is no way I can read through 17 pages of chatter. All I know is this ... if a bunch of people are attacking itaewonguy for several pages in a row, then they are, by definition, wrong. Period. End of story. Simple as that.
How do I know this? Simple...
I AM GOD
Ask an Italian! |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| on_me_head_son wrote: |
Itaewonguy. I think you don't really understand the scientific process. Here's something that might help you out.
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well the experiment FAILED! so they don�t have a theory then do they!
but scientists want to make HUGE CLAIMS anyway! even though they haven�t successfully completed an experiment!
| mindmetoo wrote: |
.Sorry, until you grasp the nature of evidence and scientific theory, something I've tried to explain to you several times now, the rest of what you sputter is just hot air |
ohh I get it now! sorry I actually thought you guys didn�t have something concrete all this time! and I didn�t understand what you meant by how science works! now I know very clearly! thank you for telling me!
so basically
you don�t need to have proof! you just need to show a possible line of theory without a successful experiment! all you need is to show is that its possible with the evidence at hand connect the dots so to speak!
hey give me a day or two ok! and I will give you a new theory of how life begun ok! its simple you should try it! anyone can do it!
how many religions are there again in the world?
now I will word it in atheism terms ok something you like to use!
picture this!
right after an atheist has listened to a Christian speak for hours on their proof of god!
he will reply with something like this!
so basically you don�t have CHIT!!
| twg wrote: |
| I think we're seeing the "Okay, whatever, shut up" point where the person debating the Drunk Logic-user gives up because the ulcer isn't worth being right over. |
yep doesn�t matter how hard you word it! or scientific jargon you use!
fact is!!!
you don�t have CHIT!!!
and any scientist will tell you.. or atheist will tell you..
PROVE IT!!!
but when the ball comes into your caught! you all run and hide under science books and science talk! and then in or pompus voice say OHH WELL, UMMMM yeaahhh well actually science doesn�t work that way!!
YEAH!! well belief in GOD doesn�t work that way either then!!!!
WHAT PART OF PROOF DONT YOU ALL UNDERSTAND!!!
you atheists want proof of a GOD right??
well I want proof of life being created from nothing!!!
how hard is that!!!
im actually starting to get bored with dealing with STUBBORN old men who cant take being wrong!
there is no evidence!
there is no proof!
there is no evidence of life being created in a soup without god�s hand !
so for the 100th time..
atheism VS god! is at a stand still..
there is no WINNER!
so leave religious folk alone! becuase your religion/cult! doesnt have chit either!!
GAME OVER!! |
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