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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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BS.Dos.

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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It probably does seem like bull$hit if you been brought up on sports where there's generally a goal every couple of minutes, especially if the football game you've been watching is some dreary 0-0 draw on a cold and miserable Wednesday evening in the middle of Winter.
I think the difference between Football and NA sports should always be measured quantitively and not qualitively. If you like to see the scoreboard constantly ticking over then forget about football as the quality of the game isn't always measured simply by the result. For most, the love of the game comes a distant second to the love of your team and typically transcends both the result and the 90-minutes on a Saturday afternoon when its played.
Personally, I think American football is bull$hit. It's just so completely over the top and devoid of anything remotely entertaining unless of course, your idea of entertainment is seeing wardrobes running around in tights for a couple of hours. I'd argue that American Football was actually created by marketing executives who simply invented the game as a novel new way of selling cornflakes to rednecks. American Football is for locker room jocks who like a bit of dressing up and nothing more.
And for the record, I'm not using this as an excuse to rubbish America or Americans or to retaliate because someone has slighted football. I enjoy watching baseball. It's both a working mans' game that I can identify with and the sport that the country was built upon and, without question, by far and away the most entertaining and successfull of American sporting exports. |
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ajgeddes

Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Location: Yongsan
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| ...by far and away the most entertaining and successfull of American sporting exports. |
Don't you think that would be basketball?
Another funny thing about this thread is all the non-NA's trashing American sports when this whole thread was started by a Canadian. Venting much? |
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Craven Moorehead

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| For most, the love of the game comes a distant second to the love of your team and typically transcends both the result and the 90-minutes on a Saturday afternoon when its played. |
Funny, that's how I feel when I watch my team play hockey. I can watch objectively when two teams whom I don't have a deep, undying love for are playing, but the instant the bleu, blanc, et rouge take the ice, I become an unreasoning madman. Not on the level of hooliganism, but no one can tell me that my team is not the greatest to ever strap on a pair of skates.
As far as American football is concerned, I didn't have much use for it either until a friend of mine who is a huge fan explained it in terms of attrition. Every inch is fought for, and if anyone doubts the athleticism of these players, let's see someone who weighs 270 lbs. run the 40 m in 4 seconds outside of the sport.
And that's my two cents.
Go Habs! |
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BS.Dos.

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| ...by far and away the most entertaining and successfull of American sporting exports. |
| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Don't you think that would be basketball? |
I don't know. I suppose so it could be. I know there are former Soviet states where basketball is big, especially Lithuania, but I think baseball is more synonymous with the US and it's certainly bigger in the UK than basketball.
| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Another funny thing about this thread is all the non-NA's trashing American sports when this whole thread was started by a Canadian. Venting much? |
It did cross my mind hence why I included 'personally'. I wasn't actually aware that they played sports in Canada. I thought they drank beer and screwed Moose to pass the time of day.
:-] |
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lucas_p
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| ...by far and away the most entertaining and successfull of American sporting exports. |
Don't you think that would be basketball?
Another funny thing about this thread is all the non-NA's trashing American sports when this whole thread was started by a Canadian. Venting much? |
And American Football STILL makes more than what the NBA can export out.
Baseball is a bore, but I still enjoy the game -- so I can understand soccer fans. However, bashing American Football won't get you many friends, not that you care, I am sure, but still an immature thing to do.
You (targeting no one, speaking generally) like a team for various reasons, but one thing ALL sports have in common is the lack of a player's feelings towards their team. Soccer AND American Football has tons of players changing teams on a whim...to be more visible, to make more money. So the allegiance is the fans alone. I grew up liking my American Football team because of where I lived, and my father, and his father, and his father. Same for your like of soccer, maybe? If not, it is the reason behind most people's fandom.
Regardless, I can probably say I grew up watching MANY more soccer games than non-NA residents did watching NFL games, seeing as how it was not exported on TV until the 2000's, so blindly bashing a sport will get you nowhere. AND if you look beyond the score (hey, I like a low scoring NFL game as much as the shootouts) it takes just as much skill to be an elite American football player as it does a futbol player.
As with all similar debates though, this one will never have an answer. And shouldn't. People can like what they want, I don't understand how people can get offended by that. |
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ajgeddes

Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Location: Yongsan
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The NBA is only a proportion of basketball. Basketball is probably played in as many countries as soccer is, of course with less popularity. Baseball is like hockey and played in about 20-30 countries. Basketball is popular in former Soviet countries, South America, Southern Europe and increasingly so in East-Asia. How many countries have profession baseball leagues? 10? How many have professional hockey leagues? 20? How many have professional basketball leagues? I would so probably closer to 40. How many countries have a professional football league? 2 (maybe 3). |
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BS.Dos.

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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lucas_P
Fair point.
I think that American Football should be compared to Cricket and Baseball to (our) football rather than the other way around.
From a spectators viewpoint (and speaking as a Brit) American Football makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. All I see is a terrific clash of bodies, (possibly) a couple of short darting runs before the whole thing collapses under a heap of bodies about 20-seconds later before being restarted again (usually after a 5-minute TV break). Now, I'm not so stupid as to realise that there's something more going on here, it's just that Baseball unlike American Football at least has a sense of continuity about it, which is why I'd draw comparrisons with football. Cricket, on the other hand, is similarly long-winded and drawn out and (probably) equally perplexing to the uninitiated.
I think what I prefer about Baseball is that it doesn't neccessarily require much in the way of knowledge to appreciate the game (like football. Ours that is). Anyone could sit and watch a game and after a couple of innings, grasp the broader (pardon the pun) strokes of it. It's just so much more accessible, which is why it's travelled so well. American football on the other hand, requires a degree of understanding before it can be fully appreciated much like Cricket. |
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Newbie

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Soccer = definitely can be dull and completely void of action, but what can you do. Not bad if you have someone to cheer for
Basbeall = painfully boring. But a hell of a lot of fun to play and go watch. Something magical about it when you really understand the game.
Hockey = it's takes a talent (and $$$) to appreciate this game. Too complicated for most to understand. Fast, hard, great action. Little hint: few people actually "watch the puck" for the full 60 minutes. When you know the game, you know where the puck is and where it's going.
Football = not a bad sport, but seeing the 'tards jump around like jack-asses everytime they make a semi-decent play makes me want to kick the TV.
Basketball = not my cup of tea, but can't argue with the world wide popularity of it. Too much scoring
Rugby = great sport. Real men, real gentlemen. No jack-asses.
Cricket = kinda interesting when you take time to figure it out. Much like baseball; ectremely boring from the outside, but quite remarkable when you understand it
And that's all you need to know about sports. |
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cunning_stunt

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
For most, the love of the game comes a distant second to the love of your team and typically transcends both the result and the 90-minutes on a Saturday afternoon when its played.
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Yeah . But it can be taken a bit far . I often listen to grown men getting excited about the latest football tabloid drama ...this manager quit ...and that player did this etc . I can't help thinking of middle aged housewives gossiping about soap opera characters . |
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cunning_stunt

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Rugby = great sport. Real men, real gentlemen. No jack-asses.
Cricket = kinda interesting when you take time to figure it out. Much like baseball; ectremely boring from the outside, but quite remarkable when you understand it |
Chiefly the sports I watch , but only at international level . Objectively both games are lame (well cricket is amazingly complex and sophisticated and i can appreciate the aesthetic nature of it ...but still too long and devoid of action in most formats ) . Mainly I watch them for the rivarlies with the other commonwealth countries which love to hate each other . |
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BS.Dos.

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
| ... rivarlies with the other commonwealth countries which love to hate each other.[/b] |
That's an interesting point and one that can greatly add to the appeal of sport. Imagine if a couple of more countries started playing American Football. I'd probably pay a bit more attention at the prospect of the US Vs. England. |
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SCE2AUX
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Association football (soccer) is tremendous fun to play but not all that exciting to watch, though I would certainly prefer it to basketball, which I really couldn't care less about. I can watch soccer, but it has never really stirred my passions or those of most of my countrymen.
I think Americans would like to see the US win the World Cup so that we can say that we really DON'T care that much about the sport, we're not just ignoring it because we suck at it.
American football is the greatest game in the world as far as I'm concerned as a spectator. You couldn't pay me enough to actually play it, but if you learn the game, the history, the strategies and the evolution of the stragegies, there is nothing that compares to it. I was watching the Super Bowl while chatting about it online and I was disappointed at how many people were calling it a boring game because the score was only 7-3 for much of it. That wasn't the point, if you were familiar with the game, you just KNEW that something was going to happen sooner or later, and it was that tension that made it great.
Baseball has even more mystique than football, but you really have to learn the game to appreciate it. It is a pleasure both to watch AND play.
American sports are more given to analysis as the game is going on, whether it is those seconds before the ball is snapped (or pitched) or those interminable minutes of commercials, football and baseball both give you time to reflect and consider. Nope, we can't offer you a continuous stream of activity, but that isn't what these two great games are about. |
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4 months left

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
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Maybe hockey should be #1, if you want to box during the game you can. Actually I think fighting is not necessary in hockey.
If you could magically wave a wand and make hockey as accessible and cost the same as soccer, there would be no contest which game would be #1 in the world. |
How idiotic . I could think of nothing more dull than watching hockey . You can't even see the puck half the time and there is no way to know which moments you ought to get excited as the whole goal pricess is quite random. The game is just not sophisticated in its designs of highs and lows for the spectator . Even though its bad for this reason...its not half as bad as basketball...where either the game is over before the last 5 minutes...or only the last 5 minutes matter...stupidity . |
Yes hockey is for more intelligent sports fans !! Yes watching hockey on TV can be dull if you don't understand what is going on but if you've ever attended an NHL game close to ice level you would change your tune. You can't understand how fast it is by watching it on TV but if you are accustomed to watching soccer, it may be too fast for some.
I still stand by what I say that all things being equal in cost and accessibility, very few would choose soccer over hockey. |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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american football is how america does war.the old guys call the shots, a propaganda machine churns 24/7 assuring the masses, the young (mostly minority) guys are used up and discarded at an amazing rate.the field generals (still mostly whites- but things are getting more colorful), the QBs get the glory of schwarzkopf, powell, petraeus. the people pay, billions are made by corporations. then we talk about the commercials.
everybody is always prepping and doing recon. the day comes. they wait and then they strike in seconds. pick up the pieces and do it again. scoring is not enough. the only objective is winning.
expectations can be raised way too high. such as the patriots. they just had the greatest NFL season ever. broke every scoring record, most wins ever but their fans call the season "a wash" because they didn't win the last game. it is an all-or-noting proposition. diplomacy? middle men? coming to peace terms? cannot (and will not be done). |
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Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Location: the Straight Talk Express
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
lucas_P
From a spectators viewpoint (and speaking as a Brit) American Football makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. |
It gets a lot better if you give it a try. It's a lot less complicated than one would think, has many similarities to Rugby (and Rugby League in particular, because the 1st-4th 'downs' are very similar to 1st-5th tackle rule in RL, absent in rugby Union of course), and also there's field goals. The major differences between the two are quarters as opposed to halfs, the game stopping and regrouping when a guy is tackled (for less time than is claimed by anti-Football people) and the ball can be thrown forward.
Brits and Americans need to give Football and Soccer more of a chance. Baseball, forget it. It's an absolutely awful, long, tedious, crap sport. I agree with Americans when they criticize soccer for being soft - which of course wasn't always the case - but when someone criticizes soccer for being boring and yet can sit through 2 or more hours of baseball, it's puzzling. But football....bring it on. |
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