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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: This new breed of teachers |
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I remember a time back in the days when basically everyone over here was here for a good time and to make a little coin on the side and travel, etc.. 99.899% of the people one met were like that.
Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but this new breed of English teachers lacks something. I sense a complete absence of The Force in them. They're too...what...businesslike? I don't mean that in a professional-minded, 9-to-5 sort of way. They just seem to lack that spirit of adventure we all had because we didn't have a goddam clue about what we were getting into when we came over. Everything that happened was simply part of the learning experience and we dealt with it however we could and life continued and most of us were the better for it.
I usually refer to these new guys as the "cake and eat it too" kids. These freaks just graduated from kindergarten yesterday and already think they own the place. True, they know a good deal more about Korea and Korean law than any of us old-timers did (thanks in no small part to this website, and us old-timers) but they haven't the slightest inkling of how things actually work here. They demand this and that and the other thing, work about as hard as we did or less, sh*t all over the place, and then head back home with their debts paid off. Good riddance, ass-filchers.
Right. All of this is simply evolution and me turning into a dried up old raisin with age and whatnot, but it's something deeper as well. I can't help but think this new breed of teachers is going to make relations between Koreans and foreigners more strained than they already are. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Mack there is good and bad in what you say.
Good
These new teachers as you said know more about Korea than most of us did when we arrived back in the day. This means some of them will adapt easier and avoid the headaches and technically have more harmonious relations with the locals.
Theoretically...
Bad
Some know more but still act like idiots and that is amazing and yes irritating! Some do come here thinking the world owes them something and go nutbar when they do not get it...akin to a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Heck, when you have been around the block a few times mack you sometimes tire of seeing people whine about the same crap over and over as they arrive...but that is just par for the course I think....they have no experience, you do.
I can safely say that most long timers here have had to deal with some fresh off the boat newbie who after a few weeks here starts telling others how it is in Korea. That is mostly hilarious because you know they will hit the wall and learn at some point..or just leave.
As for the mercenaries (short term, party, pay off debts and leave) they will continue to be here as long as Korea does not fix the ESL industry by demanding more from people who want to come here to teach (higher qualifications) and by regulating the ESL industry better so that there are guidelines for working conditions (i.e. a measuring stick of sorts).
As long as Joe avg with a B.A. in Basket Weaving can get a free plane ride here and a free appartment and get paid to teach because he is from a list of English speaking countries..well you will get a portion of backpackers and mercernaries out for a good time....why wouldn't they do that? |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| At least they don't harbour the same hostilities as you do Mack.. you bitch about toilet paper which you purposefully bought to save a buck. The new timers coming here have a better idea of what they are getting into... more power to them. |
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Been There, Taught That
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Everything that happened was simply part of the learning experience and we dealt with it however we could and life continued and most of us were the better for it.
I usually refer to these new guys as the "cake and eat it too" kids. |
In turn, I would call the guy who came to Korea in your shoes a "seat of the pants" ESL teacher hopeful. I don't think you can categorize the personalities nor the readiness for cosmopolitan lifestyles of the teachers who seek any style of fortune in Korea as modern or ancient. Everyone has a vision.
Since at earliest 1995, if you can call that going back to the day, Korea has been a haven for escapees from life (the casual NL-modeling well-paid tourist) and all-business ESL gurus who think their model for change through language is "the one". (Even earlier, plenty of people were trying their luck with no formal invitation whatever).
This board itself reports daily on the fact that both kinds of plane-hoppers are still alive and well. In the short time Koreans have been clamoring for English, things have changed a lot. Korea itself, in general, is stepping up more and asking for a more competent and serious-minded attitude toward teaching, seeing that image is forever important and no darn ESL teacher is gonna go spoiling it anymore, By Buddah! But still, recruiting from such a distance, you take what washes up on your shores.
Haven't you noticed the way pleasure ( ie, the company outing, et al)seems to lubricate the business atmosphere? The first thing a hagwon owner does, in most cases, is take his new teachers to some little restaurant for a welcoming dinner. The first thing a hagwon owner expects is that his teachers will work on recognizing and implementing the subtle relationship between business and what you do to make business work. It's a cultural disparity that teachers don't often work on picking up on the east-west difference in that regard
ESL posers come and go, maybe come again. But they aren't the ones who make any real difference that can be measured. Thankfully, no matter what the initial expectations, most teachers who choose to stay and slug it out with the schools, the living situations, the culture difficulties do so because they like what they're doing: that is, making some kind of difference. If that weren't true, this and other boards would be empty.
Maybe the ESL community in Korea is maturing in practice and in outlook. A person shouldn't come so far for any reason on his or her coattails just hoping for the best; laws and customs are reality and I don't excuse anyone who doesn't know what they are getting into, and some have gotten into some serious situations and out of the country real fast in the past 10-12 years.
It sounds like you've had some success holding on yourself. I'm sure it hasn't all been just having a good time and teaching a little English for your supper on the side. You must yourself by now have a little understanding of expectations and laws and how to get by. You either bring it with you or you get it as you go. Those who don't get it don't last.
Those who do have a much better time than they thought they would. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The new timers coming here have a better idea of what they are getting into... more power to them. |
Yes, yes, knowledge is power, etc. But you missed my point. The new kids have all this knowledge so they should be on easy street, but instead they're still acting like the same spoiled, holier-than-thou d*ckheads that I've run across since the day I first stepped off the plane. And now it's worse because they refuse to jump through the hoops (for instance, eating dinner with the boss and Korean teachers once in a while in a show of team spirit) simply because they can. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by KoreanAmbition on Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| this here territory is getting too populated. when it was just us fur trappers it was fine. now these sod busters are even talking about raising money for a fire wagon. old schultz even says he can see the new people's chimney smoke from his place. me? maybe it's time to light out for the territories. again. there'll always be new frontiers and teeming forests. right? |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
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KoreanAmbition: "I take personal satisfaction in KNOWING(my emphasis) I will be an amazing teacher...."
Mack, I'm with you. There was a day when guys came over here not knowing if their asses were punched or bored and ADMITTED it. Now we have assclowns who have never been to Korea, have never taught an EFL lesson but, hey, they "know" how amazing they'll be.
Give me the old timers anyday. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Re: This new breed of teachers |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
| I remember a time back in the days when basically everyone over here was here for a good time and to make a little coin on the side and travel, etc.. 99.899% of the people one met were like that. ... that spirit of adventure we all had because we didn't have a goddam clue about what we were getting into when we came over. Everything that happened was simply part of the learning experience and we dealt with it however we could and life continued and most of us were the better for it. |
That was me in 2002.
I have noticed that that kind of teacher still comes but doesn't frequent Dave's. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by KoreanAmbition on Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
Mosley,
For your information I teach masters classes at university in Canada.
What people are trying to tell you is that teaching in Canada and teaching HERE are DRASTICALLY different. I know, I've taught in both countries
If you had read my quote properly you would have realized that it referred to the concept of effort, and me "knowing" I would be a great teacher would not come up short due to my lack of trying.
If you're that bent out of shape because some guy like me comes and knows I am going to be a good teacher, maybe you should look at yourself before you start complaining about others. Did it ever occur to you old men that some of us young guys might actually be good at teaching? Oh wait that's right. You think YOU guys are the only ones that deserve your pay cheques. I forgot.
Because we know how it works here. And we've seen dozens of bright-eyed first-timers like youself come here "knowing" they'll be good teachers...and leave a year (or even sooner) later, bitter and unhappy.
Does my list of teaching experiences with university students mean nothing just because I didn't post it for your eyes to read on a blog?
It will likely mean nothing here. The rules of the game are much much different..
Don't hate the players...hate the game. If I am able to go over to Korea and start with a good situation, it's not my fault. Should I bargain DOWN with schools and recruiters??
Not all..but many schools and recruiters will tell you what you want to here, to get you over here. Then once you are locked into the school by a E-2 visa, they start reininterpreting the contract to their favour. And then ALL you can do is suck it up or go back home. Or you can try your luck at the labour board.
I don't need to tell you all the reasons I know I will be a good teacher. That's for me to know. You have your own career. I don't judge you, so if you choose to be ignorant (choose whichever version of the word you would like to use) then so be it. I can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Again the rules of the game are different here.
I guess that Koreans aren't the only group of people I need to look out for over there with attitude problems and stereotypes. Nice to know the fellow teachers are just as bad. |
People are simply trying to warn you. You can't expect to have nearly the same reactions or teaching style as you did back home. Trust me this is as nice as we get. Hopefully we are wrong and your employer is honest and you will have a great time.
Now don't get me wrong. I am one of the most feverent defenders of Korea on this board...but yes people do get screwed over here and those who come over professing high ideals tend to get it the most. Anyway good luck to you and I mean that sincerely |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I think that there's an explanation for what Mack is referring to:
Last edited by Netz on Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:11 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
Mosley,
For your information I teach masters classes at university in Canada.
If you had read my quote properly you would have realized that it referred to the concept of effort, and me "knowing" I would be a great teacher would not come up short due to my lack of trying.
If you're that bent out of shape because some guy like me comes and knows I am going to be a good teacher, maybe you should look at yourself before you start complaining about others. Did it ever occur to you old men that some of us young guys might actually be good at teaching? Oh wait that's right. You think YOU guys are the only ones that deserve your pay cheques. I forgot.
Does my list of teaching experiences with university students mean nothing just because I didn't post it for your eyes to read on a blog?
Don't hate the players...hate the game. If I am able to go over to Korea and start with a good situation, it's not my fault. Should I bargain DOWN with schools and recruiters??
I don't need to tell you all the reasons I know I will be a good teacher. That's for me to know. You have your own career. I don't judge you, so if you choose to be ignorant (choose whichever version of the word you would like to use) then so be it. I can't teach an old dog new tricks.
I guess that Koreans aren't the only group of people I need to look out for over there with attitude problems and stereotypes. Nice to know the fellow teachers are just as bad. |
Umm......again, I think people are trying to help you, and you're a little defensive.
As far as your qualifications, again you're operating from a Western paradigm. Your credentials are not going to mean alot to potential employers here, unless you are looking in the corporate sector at "non-English" teaching jobs. You should also consider the fact, that once you come here and work for any company as an "English Teacher", it will make it more difficult to transition to one of the corporate jobs you mentioned.
Once you're branded as an "English Teacher" you'll be placed in a different category. Let's just say it may be something you won't want to put on your resume if you do wind up applying for "real job" over here, becuase it won't score any points with Korean employers, unless they think they can pay you less.
Come on over, work here for a year, and then post next Lunar New Year, I'm sure we'll all be interested in your "perceptions" after having actually spent some time here.
Again, good luck, and try not to get confrontational, unless that's your personality style, in which case you may do exceedingly well in Korea. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| and try not to get confrontational, unless that's your personality style, in which case you may do exceedingly well in Korea. |
Actually, just the opposite. |
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plus99
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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this new breed of teachers is much cooler than you are. PM if you need proof  |
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