Korean Job Discussion Forums

[legalquestions]

Thinking of starting a blog dedicated to the discussion (and hopeful eventual reduction) of discrimination against foreigners working here in the ROK. (Unlawful Discrimination in Korea Site, or UDiKS for short). A lot of people talking about it, but nothing much ever gets done, or so it seems. Know where I'm coming from?

I see a lot of discrimination postings and rants on this and other websites (and in the press), but I think a dedicated site or blog might prove more useful. Many teachers come here and leave after a short time, so there is no real continuity and/or follow up on much of the discrimination that occurs. We need an ongoing, long term site to air these issues, so that the appropriate individuals/authorities can be held accountable.

I think an ongoing central clearinghouse-type blog might better serve us as a forum and sounding board. A 'sticky' just isn't enough, and I'm afraid I'm not up to the task (just yet, anyway) of starting a foreign teachers non governmental organization to address the discrimination issues.

Teachers (and DDD workers for that matter) could put it all right there on the table, so to speak, so that the authorities could not claim to be unaware of the discriminatory practices. What do you think?

Categories could include: unlawful age discrimination in Korea (please, no "UADik" flames please); unlawful racial discrimination in Korea (likewise, no "URDiK" flames, please); unlawful/unfair gender discrimination; "nationality" discrimination, and international bank ATM card discrimination issues. How can Korea claim to be the financial hub of Asia when most of the banks here can't even seem to issue a properly working ATM card?

Especially bothersome to me is the discrimination being perpertrated by some store/restaurant/club/shop/sauna/bar/room salon/noraebong owners (ie, "Korean Only, No Foreigners Allowed"). This is not the US Deep South of the 1950's and 1960's where I grew up; this is the 21st Century! Korea Sparkling! The soul of Asia, for Chrissakes!

More categories might include: blood donation discrimination issues; DDD worker discrimination issues (worthy of a separate blog in and of itself), as noted above ; geriatric discrimination issues (no discounted subway/bus tokens for "senior" citizens); handicap discrimination issues; sexual orientation discrimination issues; cell phone plan discrimination issues; discrimination based on the basis of physical appearance; slander and libel of foreign teachers discrimination issues; issues related to not being able to order goods from Korean shopping websites, and so on.

These are but a a few off of the top of my head. The list is almost endless, and I would certainly welcome your suggestions for more.

I first came here over a decade ago, and Korea has indeed come a long way in many regards. It wants to run with the big boys, but it suffers from a very negative image problem abroad. How many millions of PR/advertising dollars must they be paying monthly to CNN alone?

In all fairness, Korea now seems to be taking baby steps (paying lip service anyway) to addressing some of the unlawful/unfair discrimination issues. Whether they are sincere or not remains to be seen, and more needs to be done. Eradicating unlawful and unfair discrimination is just one of many things it must do if it wants to gain acceptance and credibility abroad.

The incoming president seems dedicated to helping in this regard, and we should hit while the iron is hot. It would benefit all of us. Let's try to make some positive progress.

Constructive comments and suggestions are appreciated.

[robot]

I've thought about this myself.

Might work better with a less condescending name.

[TheBulimicFatGuy]

It's a nice idea and there are already some sites that do what you are asking at least partially. There are two main difficulties I see in your suggestion of a dedicated UDiK blog site:

1) The biggest problem is that any ex-pat that actually participates in such a site risks exposing themselves to greater discrimination either through legal action that is government supported (at least by some branch) or through Korean netizen attacks.

2) The second biggest problem is language barrier. If a UDiK blog site was to hope to have any effectiveness, it would have to compose documents in Korean outlining the problems, decide who would be the appropriate recipients and send them.

If a way was found to address these issues, then UDiK blog site might be successful. I think these issues could be addressed by creating such a site with two-tiers. The bottom tier consists of members that can participate in the site with complete anonymity. The top tier would consist of members that knew each other personally (ideally after meeting in person). For the safety of maintaining the privacy of the members of the top tier, people from the bottom tier could not join the top tier unless introduced by another top tier member. The top tier would be responsible for assessing the various issues presented on the blog, deciding what action to take and performing those actions.

I should stress that it would be extremely difficult to find enough individuals with the time, resources and dedication to participate in the top tier considering the amount of work it would involve. It is rare that the ex-pat community can pull together enough on any particular issue to make a united front and dedicate the necessary resources to resolve the issue. A notable exception is the recent 배꽃 어린이 집 scandal ( http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=111779&highlight=child+abuse ) in in which ex-pats actually got positive action against the errant 어린이 집 even if nothing was done against the law-breaking police that refused to act before the media was involved.


I wish you the best of luck on finding a large enough core of dedicated ex-pats to make a UDiK site successful.

[Chris Kwon]

The other problem is how do you know when someone is really being a racist or not? or how do you know you're not at fault?

What if the person just thinks you're a douchebag? What if the person is an asshole to everyone? What if that person was in a bad mood?

You replace the Korean person who did something to with a white person and it seems like it's plausible to happen in America regardless of race.

I'm in no way saying actions from racism doesn't exist, i'm just saying it's hard to know when that person was really indeed being racist, or just being an asshole regardless of your race.

edit: but after rereading your post, you seem to focus more on business rather than individual racism. So I guess this isn't really relivent.

[legalquestions]

Good replies, all. I've anticipated these problems, too, and I think an NGO with a paid staff would probably be a better idea. However, I'm a poor teacher and am not related to George Soros, et al, so that idea is out of the question.

Still gonna consider starting a small site/blog though. More of a centralized/publicized sounding board for discrimination information sharing and discrimination "outing" than a tool of change. And if there is one thing face saving Asians react to, it is public shame and embarassment (especially when it is truthful).

However, as the earlier poster mentioned, it is important to keep things as positive as possible, lest I become the target of a government/netizen witch hunt (shoot the messenger, so to speak).

I represented the downtrodden and opressed (as a lawyer) for ten years in the states, and it is hard for me to just sit here and watch/be part of the discrimination.

And yes, my focus would be more directed to those discriminatory practices which are currently recognized/outlawed by the developed western, first world countries which Korea strives so hard to emulate and gain acceptance from.

On a somewhat more positive note, I did notice in the newspaper recently that the government has turned the Seoul Foreigner Help Desk/Center over to the direction of a Europeon gentleman. Time will tell if this is a serious effort to reduce discrimination or simply window dressing (form over substance).

I suspect he will be severely hamstrung in his efforts directed at real, meaningful reform (I hope I'm wrong). At any rate, it made for a good photo op for some politicos and civil servants, huh?

If I proceed, I'll start out small and see what happens. To quote MLK, "We shall overcome."

Now to figure out how to create a blog............

[The_Conservative]

[Hater Depot]

[Roch]

I have been harassed a few times by the police for being a white guy. The latest instance occurred as soon as I left my place in Samsung-dong (around the corner from Cheongdam Station) at about 11:30pm on Tuesday evening to go the store.

The same two cops who've seen me countless times at night going to and from my home over the past several months stopped me and demanded that I tell them where I was going. After I told them where I was going, one of them (with his hand on his gun) asked me where I lived, my name, and then told me that it was very late to be outside.

I told the guy off by reminding him that he saw me leave my apartment a second before asking me the question and that he'd seen me go to and from my home numerous times over the preceeding months. I also pointed out that it is not against the law for a person to go outside at night and that he would not dare treat a Korean person in that manner. He replied, "I do not discriminate! I do not discriminate! You can not say that to me!" I gave him the middle finger and told him to fork off and go bother a Korean. Again, he screamed that he does not discriminate. So, I said I'd make a complaint about him to the staff at Gangnam-gu Office, the Human Rights Commission, all of the television stations, newspapers, and the U.S. Embassy. I then walked away.

The creep went ballistic and yelled at me to stop. I turned around and saw him waving at me to return to his car. I yelled, "Fork you!!" With another flip of the middle finger, I was off to the store.

The two pigs drove by me and that was that.

Does this remind you of Memphis?

[The_Conservative]

[seoulsucker]

You ㄷicks.org???

All for the idea, but you gotta come up with a better name than that. Unless, that is, you were trying to be funny.

[Roch]

I told them where I was going but that obviously had nothing to do with why they stopped me.

You may be right about what a Memphis pig would have done and I would have told the Memphis cop that walking from my home to a local store is not against the law. Anyway, I doubt that a policeman in that city would have gone off on me like the Korean cop did that night.

You think that sticking up for yourself equals playing the part of Tough Guy. I guess that you felt good after putting me down. Is my guess correct?

[Join Me]

I think this is a great idea. I have considered starting a media watchdog group to address misrepresentations of foreigners in the Korean media but the time investment concerns me. I think foreigners here are tired of the way things are and have come to the realization nothing will change until our voices are heard. More people have been speaking up since I have come here and it is making a difference.

When and if foreigners ever get organized enough to send off a few thousand e-mails (letters...or call their embassies regularly) to various entities to address some of the bias, things will start to change even more. This type of organization really needs to start at the grassroots though in order to get members behind it one at a time. Good luck if you try to tackle this and feel free to make me the first on your e-mail list. If you start this, I have some ideas to share with you and I am sure others do as well.

I also agree that to be taken seriously you would need a better name. English teachers may flock to "udiks" but it would work better if this was an organization that encouraged participation from all expats in South Korea.

[email protected]

[CeleryMan]

OP (legalquestions)

I commend your desire to become an agent of change but some battles aren't meant to be fought. The sad reality is that when it comes to foreigner discrimination there is little or no Due Process in South Korea.

Why don't you re-vector your energy towards more financially rewarding projects? Find a way to exploit the malignant narcissism in this country through a novel widget or service?

G'luck

[ryouga013]

Advice: Maybe finding a different acronym for your site...

something that doesn't look like "You Diccks"

[Chris Kwon]