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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| No doubt. |
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paquebot
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Northern Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| My kids weren't aware Korea was in Asia. One kid pointed to Kamchatka thinking it was Korea. |
Kamchatka is in Asia.  Apart from that, what were the other guesses? |
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ardis
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Ardis, instead of going
at me for not doing a job as well as you did,
how about doing something constructive--like describing how you did it.
That could help me, that could help the OP, that could help my students, and that could help the OP's students.
That could even create a ripple, so there is no telling who else it could help. |
Hmm, maybe if you'd done something constructive, such as asking for help, you would have gained constructive responses. Pouty complaints and generalized, derogative statements about another culture rarely put a warm, cheery smile on my face and spur me into helpful action.
I must say, you don't seem like you'll be much of a help to them if you have no faith in them and find their culture incapable of creating anything with substance. If a teacher isn't enthusiastic, then how the hell the kids supposed to WANT to do anything? To get my kids excited, we watched movie clips from various genres, since film and creative writing are both modes of storytelling. We talked about what made something exciting, scary, sad, happy, etc. Then, I outlined the Aristotelian model for them and had them copy it down in their notes. We started with something fun, such as making comic strips in groups. That way, they could focus on both the art and the writing. Once a week in my extra class and once a day at my camp, we did writing exercises. I would give them 5-7 words (sometimes related, like "tree", "flower", "night", "morning", sometimes unrelated) and they would have to use them in a short story. These stories ranged from a paragraph to a page, depending on the levels.
We also listened to music in the class--classical (like Chopin's piano pieces), indie (Tilly and the Wall, Mum, etc), pop, whatever. But sound definitely is more stimulating than the tap of pencils on desks and a clock slowly ticking away. I was constantly circulating the room to help those that seemed stuck. A lot of kids, Korean or otherwise, need some prodding. So if they appear to have hit a brick wall, read what they have and offer suggestions. You don't have to tell them what to do, but ask questions and give responses so that they can pick a direction and run with it. After, they illustrated their work and taped it up on the wall under a big heading of "[our school name's] Literature." That way, all the other students that passed through my classroom would stop and check them out on their ways out. The kids who wrote them were shy but you could tell that they were pleased with themselves. They were getting recognition from their friends who weren't as good in English AND from their Korean English teachers. It boosted their self-esteems.
There are a lot of writing exercises you can do, just search around on the internet. I was an English major with a love for writing, but it didn't show itself until I was in middle school. Why? Because none of my teachers seemed like they cared. They obviously wanted to get back to vocabulary worksheets and reading aloud in class and didn't push for us to be creative. So we half-assed creative writing for years and our teachers did the same, until a new teacher came to my school and really changed everything for me. If you write your kids off as unable to do something and you are disgusted with the world they've grown up in, of course they won't be responsive. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ardis wrote: |
| If you write your kids off as unable to do something and you are disgusted with the world they've grown up in, of course they won't be responsive. |
Did I say all that?
If I did, I humbly apologize.
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Take a look at An Ajosshi's Story #75 that I posted today. It tells how I did it and includes several examples of the end result. |
Can't find it.
Can you give us a link? |
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ardis
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| ardis wrote: |
| If you write your kids off as unable to do something and you are disgusted with the world they've grown up in, of course they won't be responsive. |
Did I say all that?
If I did, I humbly apologize.
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I'd say that "marveling" over the fact that Korea can even write its own books and magazines is a pretty big slap in the face and a stab at the country's intellectual abilities.
By the way, you complain, I respond, you complain that I don't help, I respond with help, you reply again with a little whine (a simple "thanks" would have been chill). You're definitely a winner. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| paquebot wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| My kids weren't aware Korea was in Asia. One kid pointed to Kamchatka thinking it was Korea. |
Kamchatka is in Asia. Apart from that, what were the other guesses? |
Because any kid can point at a feature on a map. But that does not imply the kid can then name the landmass to which it is attached. You're not really good at putting together two 'n' two, huh? |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ardis,
Cut Tomato some slack. He's one of the more dedicated teachers on this forum. But even the best get discouraged from time to time.
I think it's the education system itself. It grinds the creativity out of the poor kids.
From your own post:
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| That's weird--I did creative writing with elementary students at a summer camp here and also do creative writing each week with my after school class at my public school. My younger kids came up with hysterical stuff--really, really unique, while with my middle school kids, it's a mixed bag. |
And by the time they get to uni it's on life support. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ardis wrote: |
| I'd say that "marveling" over the fact that Korea can even write its own books and magazines is a pretty big slap in the face and a stab at the country's intellectual abilities. |
A slap entirely justified. Hmmm, SNU is just cranking out those nobel prize winners, huh? Oh wait. It's cranking out professors who have to bribe their way to jobs. It's turning out PhDs who have to bribe their prof to get their thesis accepted.
I know many Koreans who are fluent english and korean readers and just hang their head in disgust when they read a Korean translation of an english book. The errors are replete. |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Half of the articles in Korean Maxim are translated from the American maxim. Maybe that's par for the course in an international magazine though. However Korean writing sure hasn't caught on as much as Japanese or Chinese literature. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| My coteacher has an MA in English and can just about have a conversation. |
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TheChickenLover
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not surprised. During the worldcup of 2002, a large number of people thought it was in China & Japan. Nonone seems to know of nor care much about Korea. Why? I have a theory.
This little country has no real power on the world stage. They do not really try to contribute anything, nor do they invent, improve or make the lives of the people in the world any better. Koreans tend to take care of themselves & ignore the world around them, yet desperately crave the approval & recognition that goes along with being a 'signficant' world player.
I remember the last Tsumani that caused so much damage. 250,000 dead & the Korean gov't had decided to donate a whopping $500,000 to the victims. It was an insulting amount that could barely do any real good. Other countries made large donations, even private citizens & celebrities alone were able to outdonate the 'world's best Korea!'. Embarrased by this, the gov't stated it would donate more, and kept increasing the amount as other countries raised their aid which made Korea look cheap.
In reality, this country IS very cheap when it comes to the welfare of other citizens.
On the cultural side, no real part of Korean culture has been valued at all in the world community. Everyone knows of Japan. Powerful, hard working, dedicated & formidable. Koreans, generally poor & what peopel know of Korea may be very well what they've seen on MASH.
They have never been able to defend themselves effectively on their own in recent history. Are constantly playing the victim card & also always whining & complaining about past grievances that they lost while ignoring their own darker side of history.
Korea has not contributed to the world in any significant manner that would make one really recognize it and remember. It has been a blip on the radar overshadowed by more aggressive & more ambitious countries while always trying to scream & beg for the world to recognize it.
It's quite sad, but not totally unsurprising.
Chicken |
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lvasia
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lots of foreigners are coming from every country around the world. and everyone i talk to knows someone who worked here. |
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ardis
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
Ardis,
Cut Tomato some slack. He's one of the more dedicated teachers on this forum. But even the best get discouraged from time to time.
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Well, I don't stalk around these forums frequently enough to know any of the teachers. But I saw a bitter post and responded. |
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jetrash
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: the united steaks
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TheChickenLover wrote: |
This little country has no real power on the world stage. They do not really try to contribute anything, nor do they invent, improve or make the lives of the people in the world any better. Koreans tend to take care of themselves & ignore the world around them, yet desperately crave the approval & recognition that goes along with being a 'signficant' world player.
I remember the last Tsumani that caused so much damage. 250,000 dead & the Korean gov't had decided to donate a whopping $500,000 to the victims. It was an insulting amount that could barely do any real good. Other countries made large donations, even private citizens & celebrities alone were able to outdonate the 'world's best Korea!'. Embarrased by this, the gov't stated it would donate more, and kept increasing the amount as other countries raised their aid which made Korea look cheap.
In reality, this country IS very cheap when it comes to the welfare of other citizens.
On the cultural side, no real part of Korean culture has been valued at all in the world community. Everyone knows of Japan. Powerful, hard working, dedicated & formidable. Koreans, generally poor & what peopel know of Korea may be very well what they've seen on MASH.
They have never been able to defend themselves effectively on their own in recent history. Are constantly playing the victim card & also always whining & complaining about past grievances that they lost while ignoring their own darker side of history.
Korea has not contributed to the world in any significant manner that would make one really recognize it and remember. It has been a blip on the radar overshadowed by more aggressive & more ambitious countries while always trying to scream & beg for the world to recognize it.
It's quite sad, but not totally unsurprising.
Chicken |
word |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
I can explain why your Korean students complain about writing assignments:
Excuse the pun, but creative writing is totally foreign to Korean students. |
There is HUGE difference between creative writing and academic writing. I can't speak for the OP, but I don't teach creative writing, nor would I ever unless they've at least learned the basics of paragraph and essay layouts, and how to form arguments and opinions (among other writing skills, like description or definition) in an academic setting.
Even with an academic slant, they still don't get it. The numerous amount of chuckleheads that try to avoid writing altogether and just plagiarize from the Internet outnumber the ones who genuinely wish to improve their writing honestly.
I tried long ago to have a creative writing class, but as you pointed out it's foreign to them, to the point they have no desire to learn it. Never had more than 2 students in those classes, but academic writing classes needed to turn students away because we couldn't handle the numbers (if I had assistants to help with grading, we could've). |
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