Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

Folks:

I have a problem. It looks like on Monday, I will be offered a University position teaching at a vocational University in the north east area of Seoul in the Uijeong-bu area.

The basic details are: 2.2 million, 12-16 hrs per week, 4 hrs office per week, teaching 5 classes of 40 students per class, 450,000 housing allowance, and 4-5 months paid vacation per year.

I did well at the interview, and my recruiter told me she would probably have 'good news' on Monday.

The hesitation comes from the fact that I don't like teaching students who lack motivation, and I was told at the interview that many of the students lack motivation.

Also, if I accept the job, I will have to leave my present one, one month early, which means no severance or return air fare (a loss of about 3.5 million). But at least, then I will have a one year contract. Is it worth the sacrifice of leaving your present job early? I have been told at my present job, that I can leave one month early (I guess they will save the money that would have gone to my severance pay).

I feel I am only accepting the job for the wrong reasons - i.e. the long vacations. It is strange - I have always wanted a University job, especially because of the long vacations, but now that I am facing the chance to accept such a job, I hesitate....go figure?

Do you think it is legitimate to accept a job for the perks it offers rather than because you actually want to teach there?

Feedback appreciated.

Ghost in Korea

[Kimchieluver]

Tough call. I had to give up my severance to get in with EPIK. It was worth it. I thought teaching 35 kids would be hell, but if other people could do it, why not me? Things worked out for the best. There were a lot of other reservations I had with taking the Public School job, but as I said, my situation really changed for the good.

I think "the lack of students' motivation" may be a challenge for you but you never know until you try. Worst case scenario, you have a year to tough it out and then have university experience under your belt. You can probably find a new university next time round with this experience. Who knows maybe you will really like it.

My advice, don't knock it until you try it. Take the job. Think of some ways to motivate the students in the meantime..

[Intrepid]

The housing allowance is good, as are the vacation months.
Teaching hours are bad if they're 16, not so bad if 12, terrible if you actually have to keep those four office hours and teach 16!
Are the classes writing? Don't do it.
If they're conversation of something without much prep, well, you can work 10 fewer hours per week than the usual adult hagwon, and get five months off instead of ten days.

[chachee99]

hmm really hard decision. Yes, 5 months off is really nice to have. It gives you plenty of time to travel. However, you will stand to loose 3.5 million won.

If this is the same university I'm thinking of, you might also have other problems. I went to an interview with at a smaller private college at Mang Wol Sa station. Yes, the person said there would be vacation periods, however he also stated that students attend classes over the semester breaks. Also, the college also does English camp programs over the breaks as well. Meaning, you could be forced to work during your vacation period. Second, the college also does not provide a severance to it's teachers. Meaning no year end bonus. So, you can expect to increase your total losses to exceed 5.0 million won. Also, for some reason you have to agree to pay the recruiter a "finders fee" of 30
% of your first months income. So, tack that extra charge on your running total. Third, you have to maintain a certain score in regards to your teaching. If you score below a certain amount, they can terminate your contract immediately. That's a little risky, especially since the person said students are lack motivation to learn.

I was also informed that the college plans on hiring 10 people for the up coming semester. I asked why so many? He said it was because they are introducing a new English program to the school and want to expand the number of teachers. Sounds fair, but IMO 10 foreigners is quite a lot people to be hiring at once.

I was a little sketchy about this position. Too many holes and unanswered questions. I got the feeling that maybe this was not a typical university position. Rather it seemed something more of an university hogwan operation.


Again i don't know if this is the same college as the one that offered you the job. However, your description of the schools contract offer, conditions, and the schools location makes me think it is.

If you want to accept the position it's entirely up to you. It will be a good reference to add to your resume providing everything goes well. The perks of a university position are nice, but make sure you know exactly what the university/college will provide to you beforehand.

I understand your situation, that's a lot of money to risk. Plus, because it's last minute you will have a really hard time finding a university position in Korea. Weigh out your options and ask yourself if this is the best possible offer you can find.

If you have a copy of the contract, post it in the contract forum for others to see and critique. They know the difference between a good and bad university offer.

[Corky]

OP said in another thread that he wasn't getting renewed next year anyway. So if that's true, why wait?

[ghost]

Chachee - you are right -it is the place which you are referring to, which I would prefer you not name at this time, for obvious reasons.

I feel I should take the risk and accept the position. I may not get another chance like this. But additional feedback would be welcome.

I was told that work during vacation time would not amount to more than 10 days, each end, so you would still get at least 4 months off, which is good, in my opinion.

I am concerned about class sizes of 40 unmotivated vocational students - what can you do to retain their interest. Even at the interview, one of the professors mentioned that some of the students use their cell phones or sleep during class!

Ghost in Korea (www.gifle.go.kr)

[chachee99]

[ghost]

I have been to a few University interviews, and I was not hired, and I assume it is my age (I'm just over 50), because younger people (in their 20's) are getting hired in many Universities with just B.A.'s.

In fact my recruiter for this job (I will pay her 30% on the first paycheck) told me before the interview, that for this University/College position - qualifications and experience were less important than personality and enthusiasm. I get the impression they want an 'edutainer' which I am not.

One of the reasons for my non renewal of contract in my present job is because my students do not really appreciate my teaching style, and if the evaluations are not very good, the college does not renew you. Also, my college president thinks teachers 'over 50' are 'too old.'

One of my weaknesses, perhaps, is that I lack creativity and technological skills - and I fear that this might affect me in the job I'm applying for. I have had quite a few 'sleepers' (especially guys) in my classes - it is very depressing to see that. I don't wake them up - because that would be loss of face. But then, those same sleepers, presumably, give me the mediocre evaluations I typically receive in this country.

The longer I stay in this country (Korea) the more I get fed up with the shallowness and whole 'circus' aspect of teaching here.

If this gig does not work out, I will leave, and not come back.

Ghost in Korea (www.gifle.go.kr)

[Corky]

Ghost, with school starting in a couple weeks, I think you're making the right choice. I've been following your posts, and based on what you've written in other threads, you're making a transition that gives you an opportunity to try something very different. You may end up being better at this, and maybe your teaching style is better for large classes. Your government job sounded like the pits as far as job satisfaction goes. Your new uni sounds pretty standard fare for private universities. It's certainly not a bad job. Good luck.

[bassexpander]

Ghost, my uni doesn't like to hire people in their 20s, although one person was once hired at 28. They consider people in their 20s as too young. Many male students are around 25-26 or so when they return from Army service. At that age, it's uncomfortable for them to consider someone younger than them as a teacher. I'm just telling it like it is.

[Kimchieluver]

Bassexpander, your avatar sucks. Just telling it like it is.

[chachee99]

Ghost, I don't think working at the college is a bad position either. I'm just saying you have a lot to lose taking the job. Since your contract is up and you don't plan on renewing it perhaps it might be a good option available at the moment. All I'm saying is just make sure the school outlines everything they expect you to do. You don't want any unexpected surprises. Also, paying a recruiter and losing out on your severance package at the end of the will be a huge loss. I don't understand why the college would not give their teachers any severance pay. I've never seen the contract so I am not going to argue about the details and benefits the school has to offer. Just play it safe and make sure everything is written on paper.

Quite frankly I am shocked most universities would reject you on the basis of your age. I find it hard to believe that they would reject an experienced teacher with a MA just because they are over 50. However, it's Korea and things are different here. as regard to letting kids sleep in class. Remember that you are the teacher and students should respect you.

Honestly, I wish you luck. It's good you are thinking about this position thoroughly and getting all the advice you can. If you have a copy of the contract post it for others to see and give you feedback. It may pop up some potential red flags you may be concerned about.

[bassexpander]

[ghost]

I posted the contract on the sticky for contracts, take a look and you will see.

Again, the details are:

2.2 million won, 12-16 hours a week of teaching, overtime paid at 20,000 won, 4 hours of office a week, minimum of 4 days on campus, 450,000 housing allowance per month (this sounds higher than average?), 4-5 months paid vacation, sometimes teach during vacation, but never more than 10 days on either end - we were told (not in writing).

My contract at GIFLE is up in April. But I have to be at my new job March 3, 2008. I will lose severance from GIFLE (2.7 million) + flight home to Canada (850,000). On the plus side, if I accept the job, then I will have a University job for the next year, with 4-5 months paid vacation, at a lower salary (2.2).

I feel that the motto 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' applies here, and I should take the risk of trying for this position. If someone can convince me not to take the job, I will listen carefully.

As I'm a little bit ambivalent, let's take a vote of for or against.

Thank you.

Ghost in Gyeonggi Do (www.gifle.go.kr)

I did not make the 'cut' at GIFLE, but others are welcome to try!

[Kimchieluver]

Thanks in advance. To me it looks like Ronald Reagan probably looks like in his coffin. I liked Reagan, but couldn't care less about him now. That picture is just hard on the eyes.