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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: Americans are not in a position to criticize the North Korea |
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On the eve of the New York Philharmonic's departure on an Asian tour that will include a visit to Pyongyang, its music director, Lorin Maazel, suggested that Americans are not in a position to criticize the North Korean regime, because America's own record on human rights is flawed.
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks, should they?" Mr. Maazel told the Associated Press. "Is our standing as a country � the United States � is our reputation all that clean when it comes to prisoners and the way they are treated? Have we set an example that should be emulated all over the world? If we can answer that question honestly, I think we can then stop being judgmental about the errors made by others."
Experts on North Korea responded to Mr. Maazel's comment with shock and dismay.
A senior fellow at the Peter G. Peterson Institute for International Economics and the author of "Korea after Kim Jong-il," Marcus Noland, called Mr. Maazel's statement "outrageous."
"North Korea maintains a gulag that has an estimated 200,000 prisoners in it, which includes multigenerational families who are imprisoned because of the offense of one family member," Mr. Noland said. Death rates in the camps are high, he said, and there has been testimony of medical experimentation on prisoners in the camps.
"The North Korean government engages in forced abortion and infanticide for women who are repatriated from China when pregnant and are thought to be carrying binational children," Mr. Noland continued. |
http://www.nysun.com/article/70860
I think this dude needs a smack of perspective. Like that woman in Saudi got. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well,
America did torture people. He has a good point imho. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Leftists, and particularly Europeans, lack senses of proportion and perspective. Maybe it is in the water over there. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
Well,
America did torture people. He has a good point imho. |
His whole position is based on the ad Hominem Tu Quoque fallacy.  |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Recommendations
In order to live up to its stated commitment to universal human rights, the USA should:
1/Ratify, without reservations, human rights treaties that it has not yet ratified, in particular the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Convention relating to the status of refugees, the American Convention on Human Rights and other Inter-American human rights treaties.
2/Withdraw its reservations to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention Against Torture, in particular those that restrict the implementation of Articles 6 and 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and Articles 1, 3 and 16 of the Convention against Torture. It should also withdraw reservations that restrict the USA's fulfilment of international obligations in its domestic law.
3/Ratify the (first) Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (allowing the right of individual petition to the Human Rights Committee) and recognize the competence of the Committee against Torture to receive and act on individual cases; on ratification of the American Convention on Human Rights, recognize the competence of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights.
4/Submit to the Committee against Torture the USA's initial report on its implementation of the Convention against Torture, which was due in November 1995.
5/Support an Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child which prohibits the recruitment of people under 18 years of age into governmental or non-governmental armed forces and their participation in hostilities. |
Source: http://www.rightsforall.amnesty.org/info/report/r07.htm
The above is somewhat dated (1998). Has the US in fact ratified any of these Human Rights protocols? I recall in 2003/04 at Uni, that it was only the US & Australia, that had failed to ratify a key Human Rights protocol, (in addition to the Kyoto Protocol on climate change).
This report by the US Dept of State on DPRK, is slightly biased / hypocritical:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78777.htm
Amnesty International has a more objective report (2007)
http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Asia-Pacific/North-Korea
http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/United-States-of-America
Australia has since changed government in Nov 2007, & abandoned the Pacific Solution for refugees, & agreed to sign / ratify the Kyoto Protocol. I really should find out what the new Government intends to do with regards to key Human Rights protocols.
According to Human Rights Watch:
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International Treaty Obligations
The United States submitted two human rights reports this year, one to the Committee against Torture (CAT) on its compliance with the Convention against Torture and one (eight years overdue) to the Human Rights Committee on its compliance with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Unfortunately, the reports are little more than a compendium of laws and selected federal legal proceedings. The Bush administration says little in either report about its counter-terrorism detention and interrogation policies or about other U.S. actions�whether by federal, state, or local authorities�inconsistent with U.S. treaty obligations. |
http://hrw.org/wr2k6/ |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that his comments fail to take into account the severity of what is going on in the North compaired to the US. If anyone wants to read a good book about it, try reading The Aquariums of Pyeongyang.
People do have a tendancy to overlook and excuse the fact that we (the US) do torture people though. I do think we have to becareful on moral judgements given the fact our government does do some questionable things. What those are and how much those thing are done who knows? |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks, should they?" Mr. Maazel told the Associated Press. "Is our standing as a country � the United States � is our reputation all that clean when it comes to prisoners and the way they are treated? Have we set an example that should be emulated all over the world? If we can answer that question honestly, I think we can then stop being judgmental about the errors made by others."
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I 've gotten that lecture many times from DD..Maybe Mr. Maazel is really DD |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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Americans (and everybody else) should be as critical of their own country as they are of others. Simply because my country isn't perfect doesn't mean that I have to suspend judgment of others.
And in this specific case, North Korea is one of the most horrible governments on earth. Drawing a straight line from it to the USA is simply silly. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| Leftists, and particularly Europeans, lack senses of proportion and perspective. Maybe it is in the water over there. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| Leftists, and particularly Europeans, lack senses of proportion and perspective. Maybe it is in the water over there. |
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So, twg, do you think that Americans have no right to criticize North Korea? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| twg wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| Leftists, and particularly Europeans, lack senses of proportion and perspective. Maybe it is in the water over there. |
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So, twg, do you think that Americans have no right to criticize North Korea? |
Kuros what stupid question. Twg doesn't think. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| What's in that kool aid? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| What's in that kool aid? |
Well, the "kool aid" thing, plus "neo con", "neo liberal", "racist", "fascist" and the rest are ways that the left tries to use slurs to shut down debate. |
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pesawattahi
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: it rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Peel, your argument about proportion and perspective is valid, but you are guilty of the same indictment you make against others when painting all 'Leftists' or all 'Europeans,' or for that matter 'Muslems', with the same brush.
Clearly the guy making this statement is a political dilettante. It is probably trendy is the circles he runs in to make inflammatory, anti-"American" statements. |
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