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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Islamic Terrorism. |
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The list of Islamic atrocities, stretching back to 9/11 (& beyond) makes for a pretty looooonnnnng kneejerk reaction.
Probably the worst was Beslan, although elements of Nationalism are entwined. Still a terrible thing to do to 186 innocent schoolkids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
And yet more violence to come in March, when Dutch Politician Wilders releases his controversial film. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| coming around more each day to "the peel" train of thought. |
Perhaps 'knee-jerk' would be a more appropriate choice of words than 'thought'. |
Ah, maybe 10 years ago. And people like 'thepeel' are getting more and more by the day.
yata, you might not know it, but you are under the influence of a Canadian idea. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| A country whose main exports are bacon and carlsberg should have seen Muslims might struggle to fit in there. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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A win in the battle for free speech absolutism.
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Danish Newspapers Reprint
Caricature of Muhammad
Associated Press
February 13, 2008 11:59 a.m.
COPENHAGEN -- Denmark's leading newspapers Wednesday reprinted a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad that triggered rioting in Muslim countries two years ago.
The newspapers said they republished the cartoon to show their firm commitment to freedom of speech after the arrest Tuesday of three people accused of plotting to kill the man who drew the cartoon depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse.
The drawing by Kurt Westergaard and 11 other cartoons depicting Muhammad enraged Muslims when they appeared in a range of Western newspapers in early 2006. Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even a favorable one, for fear it could lead to idolatry.
The Jyllands-Posten newspaper, which first published the drawings on Sept. 30, 2005, reprinted Mr. Westergaard's cartoon in its paper edition Wednesday. Several other major dailies, including Politiken and Berlingske Tidende, also reprinted the drawing.
"We are doing this to document what is at stake in this case, and to unambiguously back and support the freedom of speech that we as a newspaper will always defend," said the Copenhagen-based Berlingske Tidende.
Tabloid Ekstra Bladet reprinted all 12 drawings.
At least three European newspapers -- in Sweden, the Netherlands and Spain -- also reprinted the cartoon as part of their coverage of the Danish arrests.
Intelligence police arrested two Tunisians and a Danish citizen of Moroccan origin in western Denmark on Tuesday for allegedly plotting to kill Mr. Westergaard.
The Danish suspect was released Tuesday after questioning, his lawyer Henning Lyngsbo said. "He has no knowledge about the case," Mr. Lyngsbo said. "It doesn't seem that the evidence is very strong."
Intelligence service chief Jakob Scharf had indicated the man would be released, but could still face charges of violating a Danish terror law. The two Tunisians would be expelled from Denmark because they were considered threats to national security, Mr. Scharf said.
Danish Muslim leaders condemned the alleged murder plot, but also said reprinting Mr. Westergaard's cartoon was the wrong way to protest.
"There could have been other ways to do it without the drawing, which I personally do not like," Abdul Wahid Petersen, a moderate imam, said.
Imam Mostafa Chendid, the leader of the Islamic Faith Community, said his group was considering staging a rally in front of Parliament. The Copenhagen-based group spearheaded protests against the cartoons in 2006.
"We are so unhappy about the cartoon being reprinted," Mr. Chendid said. "No blood was ever shed in Denmark because of this, and no blood will be shed. We are trying to calm down people, but let's see what happens. Let's open a dialogue."
Massive protests swept the Muslim world in early 2006 after publication of the cartoons. Danes watched in disbelief as angry mobs burned the Danish flag and attacked the country's embassies in Muslim countries including Syria, Iran and Lebanon. Danish products were boycotted in several Muslim countries.
The Danish Foreign Ministry said its diplomatic missions world-wide were monitoring for any unrest related to the cartoon. "We have no information about events or reactions that leads us to change our security assessment for Danish citizens," said Uffe Wolffhechel of the ministry's consular department. |
From the Wall Street Journal. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Plot to Kill Danish Cartoonist foiled |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/three-arrested-for-plot-to-kill-mohamed-cartoonist-781533.html |
It's so good that so many papers published them again-Ezra Levant must be chuckling! |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what the moderate response will be [again]?
That said, it probably isnt a good idea reprinting the very cartoons that acted as a catalyst for this plot in the first place. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The reprinting seems redundant and unimaginative to me. I think they need some new cartoons. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Pluto"]A win in the battle for free speech absolutism.
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Danish Newspapers Reprint
Caricature of Muhammad
Associated Press
February 13, 2008 11:59 a.m.
COPENHAGEN -- Denmark's leading newspapers Wednesday reprinted a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad that triggered rioting in Muslim countries two years ago.
The newspapers said they republished the cartoon to show their firm commitment to freedom of speech after the arrest Tuesday of three people accused of plotting to kill the man who drew the cartoon depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse.
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Golly, that's the best news we've had in ages.
Were I to have any say in it whatsoever, I would have the cartoon in question on huge, immense billboards all over the Western world in a deliberate attempt to provoke war between Muslim extremists and the non-Muslim population, guaranteeing victory for the latter. Those peaceful Muslims, who are supposedly numerically significant, need not engage in battle, or could even join our side.
Some Muslim state like Iran gives us static? I'd see to it that they were systematically and meticulously deconstructed, using thermonuclear instruments of mass annihilation. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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What needs to proven here is that Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, and also that it is the lone valid interpretation of this theology. Also, that the Koran and Hadith are substantially more hateful and divisive than the Torah and New Testament, also taking into account the Apocryphal and Gnostic gospels. Because as we all know (or should know) it is the Hindu Tamil Tigers group that leads all players in suicide bombings.
But I'm sure we can prove using some plodding, redundant logic that Islam is worse, worse, ever so much worse. Why? Because they do bad things, much worse things than Europeans. Ergo, worst culture ever. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| What needs to proven here is that Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, and also that it is the lone valid interpretation of this theology. |
I have posted a thread on how Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, but is not the lone valid interpretation of this theology, merely one more consistant with the Islamic theological track in the past 1000 years when contrasted with a potential Islamic reformation.
The thread quickly reveals the following:
There's only people who want to assert that Islam is evil, and people who want to assert that those people are knee-jerkers. There's no analysis of the fundamental scholastics, because nobody with a post-19th Century education has the ability to even discuss theology anymore. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| What needs to proven here is that Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, and also that it is the lone valid interpretation of this theology. Also, that the Koran and Hadith are substantially more hateful and divisive than the Torah and New Testament, also taking into account the Apocryphal and Gnostic gospels. |
Wait. Why does that "need to be proven"? Does it really matter what some esl teachers and their hangalongs think about the religion? No. It does not.
What does matter is what the majority of muslims think, and how that will alter the everyday life of Western people in Western societies. While nice liberal Western people might really want to believe that the vast majority of muslims are just nice liberal folks but too darn oppressed by whites to act liberal, this simply isn't true. And this desire by naive liberal Western people is starting to count up a rather large field of female victims.
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A question of honour: Police say 17,000 women are victims every year
Ministers are stepping up the fight against so-called 'honour' crime and forced marriages. Detectives say official statistics are 'merely the tip of the iceberg' of this phenomenon. Brian Brady investigates
Sunday, 10 February 2008
Up to 17,000 women in Britain are being subjected to "honour" related violence, including murder, every year, according to police chiefs.
And official figures on forced marriages are the tip of the iceberg, says the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).
It warns that the number of girls falling victim to forced marriages, kidnappings, sexual assaults, beatings and even murder by relatives intent on upholding the "honour" of their family is up to 35 times higher than official figures suggest.
Marilyn Mornington, a district judge and chair of the Domestic Violence Working Group, warned that fears of retribution, and the authorities' failure to understand the problem completely, meant the vast majority of victims were still too scared to come forward for help. In evidence to the home affairs committee, which is investigating the problem, she said: "We need a national strategy to identify the large number of pupils, particularly girls, missing from school registers who have been taken off the register and are said to be home schooled, which leads to these issues. Airport staff and other staff need to be trained to recognise girls who are being taken out of the country. |
http://www.independent.co.uk
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Some Asians in the police and in Government jobs have been accused of blocking the crackdown against so-called honour killings.
It is alleged they are not only failing to help desperate women trying to flee abuse and arranged marriages but are actively encouraging punishment for those they believe are breaking traditional taboos.
Terrified victims who seek official help are even being tracked down by a network of Asian men working in Government departments and social services, according to a study written by the think-tank Social Cohesion.
One woman was found by her family after she signed on at a Jobcentre where a member of the Asian community was working.
The report also claims some Asian police officers actually return women to their abusive families or refuse to act against men enforcing 'traditional' roles.
Meanwhile, non-Asian officials and police officers are scared of acting against families who abuse their relatives for fear of being branded as racist, the report says. |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
So, while nice liberal Western people insist that WE must determine what is the correct interpretation of THIER religion, the defenders of their faith (men) ensure the cattle of their faith (women) are under no illusion as to what is right, wrong and proper in islam.
So, yes, kelly, you think about that all you want. Read liberal muslims to make you think that muslims are liberal. Be sure to tell me all about it. But reality is a bit.ch, and the reality is that most muslims actually just plain plain believe the words in their books as they are written. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Everyone is aware of what goes in these societies, and it's horrible, but you're making it out to be a cultural apocalypse, which is flat out ridiculous. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Everyone is aware of what goes in these societies, and it's horrible, but you're making it out to be a cultural apocalypse, which is flat out ridiculous. |
Yeah, I agree. It's not gonna be some sort of a knock-down drag 'em out clash of civilizations, at least not on any "meta" scale. Moral alarmists who try to present that sceanrio as a reality usually do so by conflating a number of issues.
Remember all that hoopla about Ezra Levant getting hauled in front of the Alberta human rights commission for publishing the Danish cartoons a few weeks back? Well, in case you haven't heard, pretty much the entire Canadian media, including the left-wing Toronto arts weeklies, sided with Levant against the AHRC. The plaintiff has now withdrawn his complaint, undoubtedly realizing that he has lost big-time in the court of public opinion, and legislation stripping the HRCs of certain powers has been introduced in parliament. And this is all in Canada, supposedly the most "politically-correct", multicultural country on the planet.
The much-dreaded "Muslim-leftist" alliance will come to nothing, as it is rapidly becoming apparent that, on almost all issues besides foreign policy, contemporary leftists and old-school monotheists are NOT on the same page. Yeah, progressives will continue to make the usual noises about tolerance and multiculturalism. But in practice, that will eventually be whittled down simply to defending(as is proper) the right of individuals to worship and dress as they please. Don't worry about seeing full-fledged Sharia law being implemented in the west. If it didn't happen in Ontario, it's not gonna happen anywhere else.
Of course, the joke is on multicultural leftists to some extent, because they're the ones who've been hollering the loudest about how everyone else has to be tolerant and accepting of diveristy, but when the full implications of their half-baked ideas becomes apparent, they'll beat a hasty retreat. Though they will continue to mouth the standard rhetoric in order to save face.
And of course the right-wing clash-of-civilization types will continue to make it sound as if secular society is under threat from women simply wearing headscraves on public streets, long after the Left has given up on agitating for legal accomodation of religion.
Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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EYE Weekly on Ezra Levant and the HRC...
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We are unused to finding ourselves nodding in agreement when we read Ezra Levant�s arguments. He tends to advocate things � prohibition of abortion, abolishing public healthcare � we disagree with. But there are things on which civilized people from across the political spectrum agree, basic assumptions that are necessary prerequisites to the functioning of a democracy: that only open debate and the airing of conflicting opinions produces progress, and that everyone is entitled to due process before the court system. The things that keep us safe from totalitarianism are free speech and due process. That the human rights commissions of BC, Alberta and the federal government are even hearing these complaints endangers both.
We have laws, both criminal (dealing with hate speech) and civil (dealing with defamation) and a constitutional Charter that proscribe the limits of free speech. These are interpreted and applied by the courts. We have no need for tribunals of non-judges to go about trashing fundamental Canadian freedoms whenever someone�s feelings are hurt.
Human Rights Commissions, who may still serve some purpose as an informal way for victims of employment and housing discrimination to find redress, need to be reined in. They should have no jurisdiction to restrict or stand in judgment of freedom of speech and of the press.
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And this is coming from the downtown Toronto arts crowd, pretty much the Vatican of Canadian liberalism.
http://www.eyeweekly.com/print/article/15222 |
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