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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Jesus was not only illiterate but probably a homo too. Too much love for his disciples, kisses from Judas etc. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| My theory is he never even existed. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Jesus was supposed to be a child prodigy teaching in the temple and astonishing the rabbis at an early age; and someone already found an instance of him reading a scroll in the gospels. So in all probability he was literate.
But honestly what difference does it make? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
Jesus was supposed to be a child prodigy teaching in the temple and astonishing the rabbis at an early age; and someone already found an instance of him reading a scroll in the gospels. So in all probability he was literate.
But honestly what difference does it make? |
No no that's the life story of Kim Jong-il. |
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philipjames
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny how, outside of the gospels (written by persons with their own agenda) there is no record of Jesus' existence whatsoever. This brave man had the honesty to point this out as early as the 1870s.
All History Ignores Him
http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd3.html |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| What about Johnny Appleseed. he's fake too, right? |
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philipjames
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| There's some evidence that even St. Paul didn't believe Jesus to have been an actual flesh and blood person. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know - and frankly couldn't give a doddle - about Jesus and illiteracy, but how about Jesus and insanity? Jesus claimed to be the offsrping of a celestial Stalin running a poxy dictatorship in Heaven.  |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| philipjames wrote: |
It's funny how, outside of the gospels (written by persons with their own agenda) there is no record of Jesus' existence whatsoever. This brave man had the honesty to point this out as early as the 1870s.
All History Ignores Him
http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd3.html |
yeah, if you ignore all non-secular sources. But then, since Jesus is a religious figure, all writings about him are automatically non-secular sources, and can therefore be safely ignored. With this bit of circular logic you can continue to say there is no evidence for Jesus' existence for the rest of your life! |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Was Jesus Illiterate? |
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| philipjames wrote: |
| Why the heck didn't the J-man leave any written records. If he was the messiah, or even if he believed that he had something profound to contribute to humankind, why didn't he put pen to paper? Muhammed was illiterate, as was John Smith (Mormons). John Smith at least got a dude to take dictation. Jesus didn't even do that. A bit bizarre. Perhaps another hint that the dude didn't exist. But if he did, where's the morality tales, the poems, the short stories. Can't say his followers were writing stuff down for him. First gospel was written down after Jesus and all his immediate followers were dead and buried. D'ya think we'll ever find written material from the hand of the almighty's kid? |
Two words: oral culture. Muhammed and, even more so, Smith, were born into cultures that relied more on written wisdom than oral wisdom. Don't get me wrong: I do not believe Christ was the Messiah, nor that there is any god, but this would explain why Jesus never wrote anything.
Peace |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| yetanotherSarah wrote: |
| In the common understanding of the Christ figure, it is said that he was raised Jewish (anti-Semites may depute this though). Judaism is a literate tradition, as is Islam and Christianity. Truth is premised on the contents of sacred scriptures. John 1:1 claims: 'the word was God'. Those sacred scriptures are God, and this idea is taken in the most literal sense most of the time. Thus access to God is available through literacy. Western religions believe in a personal God and what better way to connect personally then with reading? Not to mention that the Hebrew and Aramaic languages (the latter being the language of Jesus) both use (and used back then) an alphabet, making it incredibly accessible to the people. Cultures with alphabets have little use for scribes and other learned groups to do their reading and writing for them. Unlike places like Egypt which had a fully developed scribe culture (because they used hieroglyphics). I think we can safely assume that dating back even 2000 years that most if not all properly raised Jewish boys would learn to read. And so based on the above reasons it is highly likely Jesus, if he even existed, was literate, unless he was personally limited in some capacity. |
Mass literacy is a modern phenomenon. These days, children are required, by law, to attend school until their mid- to late-teens, and a good number of them still end up functionally illiterate.
Back 2,000 years ago, the few, literate rabbis would publicly read aloud scripture to the illiterate majority. Read Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why, by Bart D. Ehrman, for more information. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| here we go again...did the budah exist...sure. Did Zoroaster exist? Sure...did Hannibal exist? Yeah why not? Did Alexander the great exist? Yes. Did Jesus exist? No, and by the time 300 years later Christianity was made a state religon of the roman empire...all the evidence was fabricated. So I wonder why nobody goes to great lengths to prove the non-existance of anyone else? Cause this Jesus guy is such a damn toruble maker. telling people to 'love one another' and 'sell all that you have and give it to the poor.' such a nasty piece of work. |
Actually, some people have questioned whether or not Buddha, spelled "Buddha," really did exist. I even started a thread on it here*. Hannibal led armies against a large, literate empire that had historians and kept written records. So did Alexander, and he also founded cities and libraries. Your analogy is silly.
* I'm Buddhist, by the way.
Last edited by Troll_Bait on Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: re: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
Dude you try writing *beep* down after having a large nail driven through your palms.
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| Perhaps another hint that the dude didn't exist |
People don't believe in things that don't exist  |
Umm...
All of his teaching occurred before the crucifixion.
Peace |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: re: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| here we go again...did the budah exist...sure. Did Zoroaster exist? Sure...did Hannibal exist? Yeah why not? Did Alexander the great exist? Yes. Did Jesus exist? No, and by the time 300 years later Christianity was made a state religon of the roman empire...all the evidence was fabricated. So I wonder why nobody goes to great lengths to prove the non-existance of anyone else? Cause this Jesus guy is such a damn toruble maker. telling people to 'love one another' and 'sell all that you have and give it to the poor.' such a nasty piece of work. |
You forgot "hate your family" and "those who come to the Father MUST come through me."
Peace |
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jindodog
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: not seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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firstly, there are supposedly some roman records of jesus existing
"Cornelius Tacitus, a well-known first century Roman historian, also mentioned Pontius Pilate in one if his well-known texts:
�Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus�� (Annales, Historiae, Chapter 15, paragraphs 54 and 55)
Not only does Tacitus mention Pontius Pilate outside the biblical record, but he mentions him in the historical context of Christ (Christus)."
secondly, Jesus probably wasnt literate, even if he was a jew...as someone else already pointed out.....
as to why he left no records...who says he didnt? you know how hard it is to keep paper around that long? not to mention for over 200-300 years after jesus' time it was highly illegal to be christian...so any documents that did exist probably didnt, and would have been 'kept' orally....also maybe there were some and they did survive but the church of rome didnt find them so great and didnt include them in the canon.
and no, i dont believe jesus is the messiah...but i do find religion fascinating |
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