Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Yu_Bum_suk]

There are some places that really stick out in my mind as being a relaxed and convenient place to holiday. Thailand would be a good example. So would Hong Kong, for a shorter trip, to the extent a single city can. So would much of southern Europe, prices aside. Then there are places that stick out in my mind as being quite fascinating on a number of levels but also containing a hell of a lot of nuissances. This would definitely characterise Russia. Turkey would fit the bill, or at least it did ten years ago. And to this list I'd now add Vietnam.

The middle of winter, in the week leading up to Tet, is probably not an ideal time to relax in Hanoi, to be sure. All in all I'm still quite glad I went, though for that time of year I probably should have picked HCMC. Some observations, the good and bad:

Halong Bay is definitely up there on the list of top 100 things to see before you die. Even in winter under cloudy skies it's amazing. I went out on a two-day cruise that was basically part of a floatilla of small cruise boats. They all mass and anchor together in the same place overnight for fear of pirates.

Hanoi's museums are on the whole very interesting, in spite of all the self-congratulatory propoganda and rhetoric. Vientnamse, like a lot of Asians, have apparently not learned that at a certain point boasting diminishes, not increases, esteem in the eyes of westerners. The Ho Chi Min Museum was a bit underwealming for all the granduer and art. The Museum of Ethnology is excellent.

The Temple of Literature and pagodas are all right. Worth seeing if you're there.

The restaurants were for the most part quite good. There's great Vietnamese food and most of them know how to make western / international food right. They're not expensive but prices are similar to Bangkok in a city much less developed. Lovely baguette sandwiches made for a number nice, light breakfasts or lunches.

Vietnamese beer is like making love in a canoe and I only found a couple of nice pubs; the two I found were very much to my taste, however.

Hotels seem to have negleted the fact that westerners would rather not join Vietnamese in toughing it out for the few weeks of the year when interior heating is rather necessary. In my first hotel room I could see my breath. On the whole I found Lao guesthouse quality at Bangkok budget hotel prices.

The lakes of Hanoi are delightful. They're also one of the few places one can stroll around without having to stay alert of traffic. Some day the real estate surrounding them will probably be worth a premium.

Were I Vietnamese I'd find the transportation available to tourists downright embarrassing. I took a total of five taxis while there. The only one who didn't rip me off or get lost was the airport taxi my hotel called for me the day I left. Two must have had rigged meters - what the hell can you do about that except decide to walk the 30 minutes back next time? They all still ask for a tip. The only one who got a tip was the driver who took me to the airport. The first taxi drivers I tried at the airport tried to get me to share a ride with a Vietnamese-American who looked just as confused as me; we figured out our desitinations were 10km apart and I split. At every bloody corner in the city there's at least one guy on a motorbike eager to give a single tourist passing by a ride. 'Hello motobike?' ... 'No thanks ... no thanks...' - this conversation happened scores of times every day I was there.

In tourist areas, between every corner with a 'hello motobike?' guy waiting there's a peddler. You can stop to read your Lonely Planet guide book and a guy will come up trying to sell you a Lonely Planet guide book. No I don't need a book. No I don't need a lighter. No I don't need postcards. No I don't need a shoe shine. No I don't need marijuana. I was offered marijuana more times in one week than I have been in the rest of my life put together - and I'm from British Columbia! Only Cambodia can match Vietnam for annoying peddlars, though thankfully unliike Cambodia they're not little children who don't know any better. On the other hand they're adults who should.

I've been to 35 countries and have never seen motorcycle traffic like I have in Hanoi leading up to Tet. The problems it creates are off-set by the amazement it provides the foreign tourist. It's a good thing nobody drives very fast.

There are very few Yanks and the few there are generally aren't the typical idiot Americans one finds at areas that attract a lot of tourists. The Australians I met tended not to be typical Australian yobs, either. Lots of interesting people all round, including many French speakers. I didn't meet a single Vietnamese who could understand any French, though, apart from passing a few French-speaking tour guides. That surprised me a bit, but then Dien Bien Phu's more than half a century ago.

The countryside of northern Vietnam is truely bizzarre: endless rice paddies surrounding little masses of rectangular two- and three-story concrete buildings, typically with only one or two sides painted. Water buffalo, oxen, and hand-driven irrigation systems work in view of multinational corporations' new factories on the horizon. Cemetaries containing concrete-encased tombs in the middle of rice paddies add the finishing touch. Decentralising central planning is about the only way to describe it. A demonstration farm where tourists could see traditional aggricultural methods in action would likely draw a lot of visitors; Asians often don't realise that westerners can be as attracted to the quaint as to the spectacular.

The Vietnamese as a people strike me as a lot different from other SE Asians. They seem closer to Chinese than Thai, Cambodian, or Lao. They definitely show the lack of personal space and the pushy-shoviness one would expect from Chinese or Koreans. The ones not interested in making a fast buck off tourists seemed quite nice. The most shoe-string budget backpacker lives a different class of lifestyle than 98% of Vietnamese and that feeling is quite evident. When I returned to Korea, I was immediately reminded of how much taller people are here. I've also never seen a nation with so few fat people, making the Vietnamese seem quite small in stature, especially when watching a large western woman tower above everyone as she walks down the street.

I hardly ever saw a woman I'd describe as ugly, but I hardly ever saw one I'd describe as stunning, either. It's like a whole nation of reasonably attractive women you'd rate as 6s, 7s, and 8s. They tend to keep a good figure well into middle age, too. They're average weight must be around 100-110 pounds, but from the loads some of them carry must be pound-for-pound about the strongest women in the world. No, a fling with a local was certainly not in the cards and would be highly unlikely unless one went looking to pay for it.

The Korean footprint on Vietnam is definitely sizeable and everywhere I looked I saw Samsung and LG products and Hyundaes, Kias, and Daewoos. The generally impressive array of TV channels at hotels always included a couple of Korean ones. I even heard a few Vietnamese versions of Korean songs, though who plagairised a tune from whom can be difficult to sort out in Asia.

All in all I'd strongly recommend Vietnam as a place to travel, but not necessarily to kick back and relax. It's unique in a number of ways, and everwhere one finds things from water puppets to a low-speed motorbike culture one just wouldn't find anywhere else. It's not as cheap as some might expect given the per capita GDP, but it's far from expensive. In ten years I'm sure it will also look very different, and it would be worth while to see it while the high-tech and low-tech still live side-by-side. I may well go back to see central and south Vietnam, and Halong Bay if I'm with anyone who's never seen it, but for now China, the Philippines, and Taiwan are at the top of my list.

[samd]

Nice post.

[asylum seeker]

I've heard that down in the south of Vietnam people are meant to be a bit more relaxed and some of the beaches are meant to be quite good so going there might be a bit more relaxing.

[chris_J2]

The Old Quarter of Hanoi was fun to wander around too. Did you check out Uncle Ho's Mausoleum? Sapa? Glad my compatriot Aussies didn't bug you.

I found that people in HCMC in the south were more rapacious & aggressive than in Hanoi.

[KYC]

Nice post but I just wanted to make a few comments.

I spent my vacation in Vietnam as well. I stayed in HCMC. I think you had more fun in Hanoi. It was busy, overcrowded, and plain annoying. This is my 2nd time returning to Vietnam but my first time coming back during the Lunar New Year. However on 2/7/08 practically everyone was gone and the city was deserted. They had all left the city to go back to their hometown to celebrate Tet.

Yes, the taxis rip you off. Don't feel bad. They rip off the locals too. I stayed with family and my aunt took me to the airport. The ride was almost 200,000 vietnamese dollars! Crazy, eh? I guess she had good reasons for not letting me go anywhere alone or take taxis anywhere.

The beggars--most of them are from Cambodia..at least the ones in the city are. I don't know about you but I find it really sad. I had the opportunity to leave the city and visited a smaller town. There, I witnessed a 70 something man on a very old, damaged motorbike swerved to avoid hitting a dog on the road. He fell and scratched his knees, elbows, and who knows what else. He was bleeding, but not profusely. I then noticed he wasn't even wearing any shoes or slipeprs.

It's a sad situation. Vietnamese, whether old or young, have to work to survive. They have to do whatever they can..whether it's selling lottery tickets or washing people's hair. The economy is very corrupted. I watched many tv programs while in Vietnam. Most of them were some auction events in which rich folks would bid on certain things. Supposedly, the funds go to the poor folks. I asked my aunt if the funds indeed go to those people and she said no. It's all for show. Off course, there are charitable organizations that really help those in need (in Vietnam).

I guess it affects me more because I'm a person of Vietamese descent. However, I have Western expats in Korea tell me that Vietnam is more foreigner friendly than Korea. I agree with this as well..even if the locals try to rip you off. Don't feel bad. I speak the language fluently and STILL get rip off!

[jvalmer]

[chris_J2]

The Vietnamese were not well liked in Cambodia, even before the 1979 invasion, that ended the Pol Pot Regime, & precipitated a war with China.

There are also several large dams in Vietnam, on the headwaters of large tributaries feeding downstream, into the Mekong River in Cambodia. Another sticking point between the 2 countries.

[spliff]

Anybody try to sell you some dead GI bones?

[jajdude]

Very good OP.

I think VN is quite an interesting place and can relate to a lot of what Yu said (5 months in HCMC in 2004).

[elliemk]

What a descriptive post. I've copied it to my folder about places where I want to go at some point during my sojourn here in Korea. Thanks!

[elliemk]

200 Vietnamese dollars for a taxi is what someone said. I went to the universal currency converter, and it said that 200 Vietnamese Dong equated to 0.0125231 USD. Is a Vietnamese Dong a Vietnamese dollar? If not, how much does the 200 VD translate to in terms of USD? Thanks.

[jajdude]

200,000 VND (dong, there is no VN dollar)

=

12.5231 USD

http://www.xe.com/ucc/

[Khunopie]

[chris_J2]

Central Vietnam was also good. Hue, Hoi An, My Son, Champa ruins etc. I wasn't too fussed on Nha Trang. Although the beach was scoured out from a recent typhoon, it was overcast, we had a blackout of power, & there were betel nut spittings all over the esplanade, which didn't help. Apparently, there's some nice islands offshore. I did manage to get some green dragon fruit there, though. Like a mild kiwi fruit, with black seeds & white flesh.

Ninh Binh & Tam Coc (3 caves) was worth seeing. It's 160 km south of Hanoi.