Korean Job Discussion Forums

[fromtheuk]

I have just read the thread about Bryan's visa being denied because he was in a car accident.

I know that ESL teachers in Korea are fairly diverse, even though English is their first language. Wherever they teach, be it a University, Hagwon, Public School etc. most of them are here as foreign employees.

I have a terrific idea, why don't we form an organization, designed to represent the needs and interests of all ESL teachers in Korea.

A body, which as one single unified organization, can articulate the legitimate concerns of ESL teachers, to improve their quality of life in Korea.

I feel this would improve conditions for the majority of us, would enable us to collectively state what our views are on important issues relating to ESL, and most important of all, would provide some form of safety/security while working and living in Korea.

Reading this forum, the childish arguments that take place are fine, but regardless of our differences, it surprises me an organization hasn't already been established by ESL teachers themselves, to help us all.

It's common sense, isn't it?!!

Lastly, I realize this thread could be perceived to be a bit of a 'we-are-the-world-it-doesn't-matter-if-your-black-or-white-give-peace-a-chance-type-thread'.

But seriously, to effectively resolve the many complaints ESL teachers have, should we not set up an organization?

And no, I don't propose I am in charge!

[littlelisa]

I've been on this board less than a year, and I've seen several people propose this idea. The last time was just about a month ago, I think. The general consensus each time is that it won't work.

[captain kirk]

Because, on average, people only stay and teach 1.5 years.

[laogaiguk]

Won't work. Most people don't have trouble and won't pay to keep it going. Plus, aren't around long enough to care. I also believe it's actually illegal for us to do that. Remember, we are in a foreign country, as much as it may seem like a first world country, it isn't there yet and sometimes you have to be careful.

[mistermasan]

start locally. if you one chapter is a success others will follow the template.

[spliff]

Who is Bryan? Was he drunk?

[normalcyispasse]

[air76]

Even if it were legal to organize a union I think that most people don't realize that this would be extraordinarily expensive and time consuming to do. If the organization were to have any real bargaining power there would have to be full-time employees who worked for the union. I don't think that most people would be willing to pay for this, especially since the benefits would not be reaped by them but instead by the new crops of teachers in the coming years.

Face it, anyone who has been in Korea for longer than 2 years has either found one of the good jobs or set up their own independent gig that makes even more money. Anyone who is leaving Korea in less than 2 years would be unwilling to pay.

I don't think that any actions taken by teachers are going to change the 10% of hagwans that treat their teachers poorly. The good schools who are run by good businesspeople figure out that if you treat teachers well then they don't make a run, they sign on for another contract, and therefore save you thousands of dollars in recruiting fees and flights and improve the quality of your product which increases sales.

Unfortunately I think that all that can really be done is on an individual basis teachers need to stand up to their directors. My first year in Korea it took me 6 months to figure out that if I were to just say NO to my director for certain things that he would eventually back down and nothing would happen.

Another way to improve your conditions is to go teach in a couple other countries and then you'll look back at Korea and say "Wow, even with all the BS I had it really really good there."

[Cohiba]

Yeah, and what will you call this "organization": FOOC U

Fresh Out Of College Union

Try getting some experience in the real world and then get back to us.

[brandon adams]

5 years ago, a teacher tried to organize a foreign teachers union and was, as a result, blacklisted by the hagwons and immi. His E-2 was not renewed and he was given 2 weeks to leave the country. They said he was an agitator. So much for Korean democracy.

So, don't even dream about it!

[Mi Yum mi]

Great idea. You start the ball rolling and get back to all to us. The only people who could start a union would be he f visa holders. By the time someone's been here long enough to meet a girl and marry her, they already know how things work here and how to play the game. I highly doubt any f-holders, myself included, would jpin a union. There's no point. Most people last a year tops. Who'd collect union fees? Who'd yo pay to run it? It'd have to be a Korean or an f-holder (none of which would do it. There are easier and better ways to make money).

Some n00b alway suggests this idea every 6 months, but it's never going to work. Maybe if you were serius about it you'd get Korean Hagwon workers to get something going to cover their own a$$es. Then after it's around get foreigners to join. Most of us have better things to spend money on. For most it's women, beer and soju. For some it's family, kids and future. Sorry for the harsh words, but reality sucks sometimes.

[fromtheuk]

I was thinking not of a union. Just an organization which could speak for the ESL community. If we could approach our respective governments and gain their backing to try to form some sort of well-intentioned support group, it sounds like a good idea.

An organization which doesn't cost anything, but runs on the kindness of strangers. Oh well.......there's no harm in thinking.

[mountainous]

The motive behind your idea is good, etc... but the reality is that teachers are not in control of the flow of information. The dirty hakwon frauds and recruiters (including ESL Forums that promote them) have a larger financial stake in hakwon fraud, collectively. They pay the police who fine and deport the teacher with no pay...that is how the scams work in general.

[yeremy]

It's illegal for us to form a union. It's forbidden by the Korean government, which has a hard enough time with Korean unions these days. Someone proposed forming an association, but that discussion did not go very far either, as far as I know.

What some of the teachers where I work and live have done is to informally get together and agree to do certain things such as not put on the dog and pony shows. That group is trying to change the way that things are done in my city, but they aren't succeeding.

I don't like unions, in general, because all of the ones I have been forced to join in the past have never done squat for me, while they have enjoyed taking their cut from my salary and calling meetings I have never wanted to go to. The only benefit I have 'enjoyed' is some safety from being fired when I have had to confront management over an issue, cause I and my bosses knew the 'brothers and sisters' were behind me. But this is just my opinion. I wouldn't mind belonging to the NBA Player's Union or the NFLPA, if you know what I mean.

[Roch]