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Do you think socialized medicine (in the US) would be . . .
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Do you think socialized medicine (in the US) would be . . .
Better
66%
 66%  [ 16 ]
Worse
29%
 29%  [ 7 ]
About the Same
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Who knows?
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 24

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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Do you think socialized medicine (in the US) would be . . . Reply with quote

Here are the results of an actual poll.

Vote before or after looking at that poll's results, for all I care.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of now, the votes on this poll seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of socialized medicine. In fact, at this moment the vote is unanimous.

As far as I'm concerned, the only debate should be about what kinds of treatment should be included.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the only debate should be about what kinds of treatment should be included.


Then would it pain you to know that none of the Presidential aspirants is advocating socialized medicine at this time?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Pain' is a little strong. Perhaps 'chagrined' is more accurate. I do think basic medical care is a human right and personal wealth should have nothing to do with it. I'm also aware that we live in a democracy where change is by increments, which can be frustrating.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along with the 12% in the poll you ref, I voted "Who knows?" I think there is room for reconceptualization and negotiated compromise with respect to the various interests involved in such questions as this. I would favor reforming the American healthcare system (or lack thereof, however you may stand).

I also think the far left and many in the mainstream left preach the virtues of Socialism formulaicly and dogmatically -- just as many in the far right and the mainstream right do with respect to the so-called free market. So, ultimately, I think people will not reconceive or negotiate anything but rather continue aiming to force their worldview and wills onto others.

The entire thing strikes me more and more as irredeemably puerile -- especially as Michael Moore and co. have chosen to frame their "debate." That is, that we must embrace Britain, Canada, and Cuba's flawless, shining examples...
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
As of now, the votes on this poll seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of socialized medicine. In fact, at this moment the vote is unanimous.

As far as I'm concerned, the only debate should be about what kinds of treatment should be included.


Ummm, Kuros.....you said this with 5 actual votes tallied?

They don't teach you statistical analysis in law school? Wink
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wannago wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
As of now, the votes on this poll seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of socialized medicine. In fact, at this moment the vote is unanimous.

As far as I'm concerned, the only debate should be about what kinds of treatment should be included.


Ummm, Kuros.....you said this with 5 actual votes tallied?

They don't teach you statistical analysis in law school? Wink


I wish they did! Of course, Ya-Ta is the person you quoted. But, dammit, I wish we learned statistics. Sad
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Czarjorge



Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm increasingly annoyed with "news" people saying things like 'Americans don't want to pay higher taxes even if it means access to social program X, Y, or Z.' When the question is couched as such the answer is the expected 'N-O'. I wonder what the response would be if the question was "Would you, American citizen, prefer not to have to pay for health care if it meant paying a tax increase that is equivalent or less than what the average person pays for healthcare."
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ummm, Kuros.....you said this with 5 actual votes tallied?


Actually, I said it, and it was when there was one vote tallied.
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
wannago wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
As of now, the votes on this poll seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of socialized medicine. In fact, at this moment the vote is unanimous.

As far as I'm concerned, the only debate should be about what kinds of treatment should be included.


Ummm, Kuros.....you said this with 5 actual votes tallied?

They don't teach you statistical analysis in law school? Wink


I wish they did! Of course, Ya-Ta is the person you quoted. But, dammit, I wish we learned statistics. Sad


Oops....now if only someone would teach me how to read. Embarassed
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agentX



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point, I consider the advice and treatment regiments of Central African traditional witch doctors to be more valid and accurate than the advice of anyone at Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agentX wrote:
At this point, I consider the advice and treatment regiments of Central African traditional witch doctors to be more valid and accurate than the advice of anyone at Blue Cross/Blue Shield.


Humana is the worst of them all.

I decided to vote 'better' because it was closest to 'it can't possibly be worse than the status quo.'
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
...it can't possibly be worse than the status quo.


Given what range of possibilites? What we see around us in other regions and nations? Our closest models are the Canadian, Mexican, and Cuban ones. And according to WHO -- where Canada barely ranks "better" than us and Mexico and Cuba rank "worse" -- there are 153 nations with healthcare systems that rank "worse" than America's.


Last edited by Gopher on Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the details of the Korean system? Every time I've had contact with it, I've gotten fast, efficient service at a reasonable price--except the one time the doctors were on strike.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
...fast, efficient service at a reasonable price.


If you have to pay for it, that suggests that at least some Koreans remain outside of it, and therefore, according to pro-Socialist arguments, the entire system must be broken and indeed evil.

By the way, WHO ranks the South Korean system as "worse" than ours -- with more than twenty others between us.
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