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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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With 80 dead muslims, I suspect the riots about this to start any second. I'm sure the muslim ghettos in France will rise with muslim anger at this horrific crime against islamic people by "extremists".
Iran, Syria and Pakistan will take great effort in ensuring that they aren't in any way funding terrorists who kill "innocents" as that would be unislamic. Saudi will set up a "truth and reconciliation" commission that will seek to bring peace to the country. The leaders of the regions theocracies will come together, stand together and denounce together violence in the name of islam as unislamic.
islamic leaders all over the world (imams too) will take this opportunity of mass death to usher in progressive changes to the texts and ideas that caused this mass murder and muslims around the world will protest in the streets this slaughter in the name of their religion. muslim netitizens will organize a global day of protests against this misuse of their religion and join in hands with the Jewish, Hindu, Christian and other victims of muslim suicide bombings, offering their solidarity with anybody who is harmed by "extremists".
And so on.
haha. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sarcasm noted. 2 years ago, I held very similar views to 'Czar_Jorge'.
Both the Koran & Bible explicitly state "NO KILLING". There are no subclauses in fine print "with the exception of Zionists, Americans & Infidels". I'm fast losing patience with radical interpretations of the Koran & politicization of Islam, to suit personal agendas. Something like a thesis, forced to fit. Neither gel.
Last edited by chris_J2 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| Both the Koran & Bible explicitly state "NO KILLING". There are no subclauses in fine print "with the exception of Zionists, Americans & Infidels". I'm fast losing patience with radical interpretations of the Koran & politicization of Islam, |
Uh, I'd give the book another read. There are many, many times in which a muslim is commanded to kill.
Here is just one:
�Whoever changes his religion, execute him.� |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Chris, I think you will lose a battle with BJWD over who knows more about the text of the Koran.
Maybe interpretation is another thing, but he knows what he is talking about when it comes to the ink on the page. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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That "execute him" remark, kind of contradicts the, 'Thou shalt not kill' bit or words to that effect. I've only ever read bits of the Koran.
Now here's something you don't see everyday!
Arab journalist attacks radical Islam
A leading Saudi journalist has caused a stir by launching a scathing attack on Muslim clerics who justify the killing of innocent civilians in the name of jihad, or holy war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3632462.stm
Not before time either.
Ps: caniff. I've known for some time that BJWD & the_peel are synonymous. I recall having heated discussions 2 years ago, with BJWD, when I held similar views to czar_Jorge. Now, my views have morphed. I have no intention of arguing the wonders & innocence of Islam in 2008.
Last edited by chris_J2 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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I just want us to be honest. I'm tired of the dishonest pandering.
Free speech works only when the society honestly faces down hate and ignorance. If a racist stands up and says "I hate blacks", as he has a right to do, it then becomes our responsibility to expose that for the nonsense it is. If people are unwilling or unable to challenge the racist, then we have to think about pulling back the freedom to speak as a secondary means of preventing racial violence.
And it is the same with the muslims. We can only allow them freedom of speech as long as the hate coming from their mosques and mouths is being openly criticized in public, but the vast majority of the public. Otherwise, their hate will dominate and we will have a bigger problem.
So, please. Let us all try and just be honest. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
That "execute him" remark, kind of contradicts the, 'Thou shalt not kill' bit or words to that effect. I've only ever read bits of the Koran.
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The disagreement there is about the punishment for apostasy. Apologists point to the "no command in religion" comment from mo' as a counter to the "kill him" of other times. This is quite an easy explanation.
In islam, there is no compulsion to pray, to haj, to eat halal. There is no compulsion to beat your wife or kill the Jew behind the bush. But if you leave the religion, you are to be killed. The compulsion comment is about how observant the muslim is. Apostasy is punishable by death. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
Arab journalist attacks radical Islam
A leading Saudi journalist has caused a stir by launching a scathing attack on Muslim clerics who justify the killing of innocent civilians in the name of jihad, or holy war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3632462.stm
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Very unfortunate that this should be so unusual that it causes a "stir".
This is one of the major problems with Islam. Not enough people speak out against the bullshit. One is left to wonder what the majority of Muslims really think about the violence and atrocities that are being committed daily in the name of their religion. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| One more reason to stay away from Dog Fights. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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cbclark4: Are you referring the bombing in Afghanistan, or the mild debate on the rest of this thread?
I liked this quote from the above article:
"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."
This one was pretty good, too:
(Mr Rashid's article, which appeared on Saturday in al-Sharq al-Awsat, singled out the controversial and influential Egyptian cleric, Yousef al-Qaradawi, whose views are aired regularly on the Qatari satellite channel, al-Jazeera.)
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| "A man of his advanced age incites young men to kill civilians, while his two daughters are studying under the protection of British security in the "infidel" United Kingdom," Mr Rashid wrote. The implication is that Mr Qaradawi is a hypocrite. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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the_peel wrote:
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| And it is the same with the muslims. We can only allow them freedom of speech as long as the hate coming from their mosques and mouths is being openly criticized in public, but the vast majority of the public. Otherwise, their hate will dominate and we will have a bigger problem. |
Agreed. There's a guy in the Lakemba Mosque in Western Sydney, (Hilaly) who ought to be deported, imho. He basically said that Caucasian women are inviting rape, because they are scantily clad on the beach, compared with their Muslim sisters.
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| "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred." |
More Lunacy:
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| "September 11 is God's work against oppressors. Some of the things that happen in the world cannot be explained; a civilian airplane whose secrets cannot be explained if we ask its pilot who reached his objective without error, who led your steps? Or if we ask the giant that fell, who humiliated you? Or if we ask the President, who made you cry? God is the answer." |
Then there's Holocaust Denial, & on & on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly |
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