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| What American city will get nuked by rogue American government to faciliate martial law? |
| Baltimore |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| Denver |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Detroit |
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26% |
[ 6 ] |
| Seattle |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| San Francisco |
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39% |
[ 9 ] |
| Cleveland |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
But it is a fact that the CIA has been involved in false flag terror acts beyond its own borders. |
Sure. But I've not noticed them killing innocent Americas at home. The claim is the CIA or some group of Americans will kill massive number of innocent Americans in a power grab. That I'd like to at least see some evidence of actually happening in the past. Like I say it's a big, big leap. And maybe space aliens are behind this... |
Really though?
How many acts of terror have occurred on American soil in the recent past? |
I'm sorry you're trying to use a conspiracy theory to prove the probability of another conspiracy theory. Give me something we can reasonably agree on. Not speculation to promote speculation. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| There is some evidence to support the allegations. |
I do not believe you understand the concept "evidence." |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
But it is a fact that the CIA has been involved in false flag terror acts beyond its own borders. |
Sure. But I've not noticed them killing innocent Americas at home. The claim is the CIA or some group of Americans will kill massive number of innocent Americans in a power grab. That I'd like to at least see some evidence of actually happening in the past. Like I say it's a big, big leap. And maybe space aliens are behind this... |
Really though?
How many acts of terror have occurred on American soil in the recent past? |
I'm sorry you're trying to use a conspiracy theory to prove the probability of another conspiracy theory. Give me something we can reasonably agree on. Not speculation to promote speculation. |
But it isn't all speculation. There is evidence. It just isn't complete and direct. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| There is evidence. It just isn't complete and direct. |
What is it, then? The allegation we are dealing with is the military-industrial complex/Pentagon/CIA plans to nuke a major American city in order to seize power and establish martial law and/or an outright dictatorship.
What have you got? |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| There is evidence. It just isn't complete and direct. |
What is it, then? The allegation we are dealing with is the military-industrial complex/Pentagon/CIA plans to nuke a major American city in order to seize power and establish martial law and/or an outright dictatorship.
What have you got? |
Wrong. My claim is that rogue members of the MIC/Pent/CIA have previously demonstrated at least a desire to facilitate false flag terror in America. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| There is some evidence to support the allegations. |
I do not believe you understand the concept "evidence." |
Hows this?
| Quote: |
| Evidence in its broadest sense includes anything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| My claim is that rogue members of the MIC/Pent/CIA have previously demonstrated at least a desire to facilitate false flag terror in America. |
Very well. Let us abandon the thread's claim and deal exclusively with yours, then.
Identify these "rogue elements" as specifically as you can. Units, divisions, budgets, officers, plans, etc. Then elaborate in precise language on "at least a desire to facilitate false-flag terror in America." And cite your evidence every step of the way. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| My claim is that rogue members of the MIC/Pent/CIA have previously demonstrated at least a desire to facilitate false flag terror in America. |
Very well. Let us abandon the thread's claim and deal exclusively with yours, then.
Identify these "rogue elements" as specifically as you can. Units, divisions, budgets, officers, plans, etc. Then elaborate in precise language on "at least a desire to facilitate false-flag terror in America." And cite your evidence every step of the way. |
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE6DF1138F93BA15753C1A965958260 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Newspaper articles make very weak evidence on such matters. Rumors and hearsay. Little more than that. Like a Bob Woodward book. Sensational and entertaining. But at the end of the day, insufficient to send anyone to the gallows. Like the article you post: based on a confidential-informant's unsubstantiated allegations.
Do you have documents, memoirs, depositions, confessions, cross-examinations, inspectors-general reports, Congressional Committee investigations? Anything like that?
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:20 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Newspaper articles make very weak evidence on such matters. Rumors and hearsay. Little more than that. Like a Bob Woodward book. Sensational and entertaining. But at the end of the day, insufficient to send anyone to the gallows. LIke the article you post: based on a confidential-informant's unsubstantiated allegations.
Do you have documents, memoirs, depositions, confessions, cross-examinations, inspectors-general reports, Congressional Committee investigations? Anything like that? |
Like I said. Some evidence exists.
Like I said. No direct evidence exists.
Are we in disagreement here? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. Your claim is unsustainable and, moreover, obscene -- as is OP's. You base all that you have alleged here on one confidential-informant's unsubstantiated allegations that have bore no fruit in over ten years. That is how old your story is, I remind you.
You strike me as a kind of instinct-driven antisocial animal that shows and reconfirms a certain stubborn inability and unwillingness to stop and think. You only know fear, running, and charging.
See my entries on pps. four and five, this thread. The Church Committee fully investigated and then dismissed your nonsense allegations in 1975.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Yes. Your claim is unsustainable and, moreover, obscene -- as is OP's. You base all that you have alleged here on one confidential-informant's unsubstantiated allegations that have bore no fruit in over ten years. That is how old your story is, I remind you.
You strike me as a kind of instinct-driven animal that shows a certain stubborn inability and unwillingness to stop and think. You only know fear, running, and charging. |
Like I said. Some evidence exists.
Like I said. No direct evidence exists.
I'm basing my opinion on the "some evidence".
That is my right, so you'll have to just deal with it.
And what is with the personal attack? Stop being so childish Gopher.[/i] |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
But it is a fact that the CIA has been involved in false flag terror acts beyond its own borders. |
Sure. But I've not noticed them killing innocent Americas at home. The claim is the CIA or some group of Americans will kill massive number of innocent Americans in a power grab. That I'd like to at least see some evidence of actually happening in the past. Like I say it's a big, big leap. And maybe space aliens are behind this... |
Really though?
How many acts of terror have occurred on American soil in the recent past? |
I'm sorry you're trying to use a conspiracy theory to prove the probability of another conspiracy theory. Give me something we can reasonably agree on. Not speculation to promote speculation. |
But it isn't all speculation. There is evidence. It just isn't complete and direct. |
I guess we're still waiting on that Utah scientist's paper on bomb traces passing peer review, huh? Any update on that? |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
But it is a fact that the CIA has been involved in false flag terror acts beyond its own borders. |
Sure. But I've not noticed them killing innocent Americas at home. The claim is the CIA or some group of Americans will kill massive number of innocent Americans in a power grab. That I'd like to at least see some evidence of actually happening in the past. Like I say it's a big, big leap. And maybe space aliens are behind this... |
Really though?
How many acts of terror have occurred on American soil in the recent past? |
I'm sorry you're trying to use a conspiracy theory to prove the probability of another conspiracy theory. Give me something we can reasonably agree on. Not speculation to promote speculation. |
But it isn't all speculation. There is evidence. It just isn't complete and direct. |
I guess we're still waiting on that Utah scientist's paper on bomb traces passing peer review, huh? Any update on that? |
He put out a new paper on the microspheres and temperatures in during the fire. He uses past government reports of WTC dust to verify his findings. I'll dig it up for you if you are interested. A version of the paper has been accepted for a MS journal.
No word on the thermate yet. Independent non-truther scientists are still working with it.
Let me know if you want to read that paper. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| Let me know if you want to read that paper. |
Can you not just briefly summarize its evidence, findings, and ramifications for us in your own words? |
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