Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Are they the lemmings]

I found this article interesting, but I can't form an opinion on it because I've never been to the US and, although I have numerous American acquaintances and friends, there aren't enough of them to reach any conclusions.

I'd say some the article's conclusions apply to many more countries than just the US, but it was written about America so let's focus on that for now.

So, Americans! What do you think? Are your countrymen getting steadily dumber and becoming blase about their ignorance?

[reactionary]

i haven't bothered/had time to read the entire article, but...

compared to when?

a quick glance at that article sounds like the decline of the intelligentsia - a death i hardly would mind. if sipping on champagne in cigar smoke filled rooms is not drawing as much attendance these days, can't say i'd mourn.

if anything, thanks to the internet, americans like people all around the world are MORE informed than the past of what's going on (though i certainly can't say if IQ scores are going up) than they were 10 years ago. watching cnn repeat the same stories over and over 24/7 definitely dumbs someone down. but i like how on the internet you can pick and choose what stories to look at in depth - personally, i skip over all the celebrity news that even cnn covers on the air.

celebrating our ignorance? maybe to an extent - the "mooks" of jackass. but it hardly seems much different than jeff spicoli in the 80s or benny hill or mr bean to look at another country. do we laugh at it because we celebrate it or because we look down on it? i hope the latter, but who knows.

anyway, that article is all over the place and probably deserves some very long responses.

in brief...the american today vs the american 50 years ago = american today wins. i really believe literacy rates must have increased for the poor (esp minorities) in that time span. but ok, maybe middle class wasps have dumbed down.

the american today vs 10 years ago? absolutely today. i really believe the internet is a decent source of what is really boundless information for a lot of people.

[BreakfastInBed]

It pains me to admit it, but yeah, I think so. Living abroad I often find myself becoming defensive when I hear others level the same criticisms at my country that I did at home. We all aren't idiots and we certainly aren't all bad, but there are a frightening number of dimwits and morons out there who seem to be not only growing in number, but growing increasingly proud of their staunch idiocy. What I've heard referred to as "the tyranny of the visual" might not be so bad if what the majority of Americans were watching on tv were programs more intellectually substantial than our diet of polemical shouting matches and emotional security blankets. And don't get me started about reading and what passes for literature.

The most remarkable thing to me though is that in the midst of our bleary eyed screen dominated junk culture utopia, America, believe it or not, does continue to produce brilliant, educated, and profoundly decent people who genuinely care about their actions and the actions and future of their country and the world. We just need more of them. Unfortunately we all too often seem to be headed in the wrong direction.

[blurgalurgalurga]

I don't think so. I do however think that the dumb ones are getting louder and more widely published, thanks to the internet. The ratio of smart to dumb is probably the same as it ever was--about 1 to 10, maybe?

It's all relative, too, of course. I'm not particularly dumb, but compared to the truly clever, I have the IQ of a cantaloupe. Compared to Cleetus the Slack-jawed yokel, I am Braniac.

[SuperFly]

Link --> We're smarter than you think

[Ukon]

Back in the day, people read more books and newspapers, but the books they read were hardly "war and peace" level. More like the same crap novels that regulary populate the supermarket....except worse.

Dime novels, cheapo melodramatic radio programs, crappier movies, and even lamer Television with little intellectual stimulation was the norm.

I imagine more discussion took place for fun, but I doubt the vast majority of people were discussing anything more relevant than who's sleeping with who and who won the baseball game last night.

People got more exercise and ate better back then, which helps mentally which is a plus.

[Are they the lemmings]

Hmm, interesting. And a good link from SuperFly.

What about Jacoby's inference that more Americans are in education for longer but they're not learning as much? In other words, everyone's going to college but they still have a "shaky grasp of basic geography, science and history".

[Dome Vans]

Two words:

Celebrity Culture

This is a large part of why I think everything is going wrong and stands as a good indicator. Not just in the States but other countries too. You only need to watch TV to see the downfall of intelligence.

Things like Big Brother. Paris Hilton etc

Being dimwit is now acceptable and can make you a lot of money. Kind of throws out the idea that being smart should be the goal for people. Go on tv, forget dignity and you're there.

And Capitalism. It's a lot easier to sell to idiots.

[reactionary]

^ see, that's where i think there are a lot of smart americans compared to some other countries (KOREA!!!!). there's actually art, music, literature outside of the mainstream that people pay attention to. not a whole lot, but some.

[reactionary]

also, i didn't realize everyone was going to college. the last statistic i checked said something like only 50% of young americans graduate from a 4 year university. but still, i'll wager that's higher than the past. whether that 50% learns anything or not depends on a lot of factors also, though.

[idonojacs]

[Are they the lemmings]

[reactionary]

depends on what the purpose of higher education is. create an informed, enlightened individual - or just job prep? i have brilliant engineering friends who i bet would be just as clueless on a geography quiz as those obese hicks you see on youtube when they're asked questions on the street. they know a lot of things, but not what jacoby thinks they should know. and quite a lot of things that she doesn't know.

liberal arts major? well, i studied international relations and comparative sociology, and i bet i'd do a shit job if you put a blank map of africa in front of me, i'll admit. also, i can't quote all the same literary classics she does. i never studied literature. she sounds like a bit of a self described elite - maybe studied at a small, private liberal arts college.

i come from a very decent public university system (california) - as you might know, education varies VASTLY from state to state. however, as i understand it, university education is the ONE PART of the american education system that's actually worth a damn for those students that actually pursue it. i find it a bit hard to believe that there are many
utterly clueless college graduates out there.


***

edit: also, now that i've read it fully, i find myself doubting the validity of a lot of her stats. 20% of americans claim the sun revolves around the earth? 33% say a foreign language is " NOT AT ALL important"?

maybe i'm just in denial, but i really have a hard time believing some of her claims...maybe i'll scour the websites she provided later to see how exactly they got those numbers

[Temporary]

I don't think Americans are getting dumber I think the media pays more attention to it.

[Are they the lemmings]