|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
|
 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: Auschwitz Jews Sue USA for not helping enough |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Hungarian Jews called to register for class action
by Anna Bystr�m
Sun Online
February 13, 2008 08:00 am | Peter Wolz, who describes himself as an attorney for Jewish survivors of Auschwitz and their heirs, is appealing for Hungarian victims of the death camps and their heirs to contacts him over a possible class action.
D�sseldorf-based Wolz says he has already filed a class action for $40 billion against the US government at the Federal District court of Colombia, in Washington DC. The class action concerns the failure of the Allies to bomb the railway bridges between Hungary and Auschwitz during the Second World War. Wolz believes the bombing of the railway bridges could have saved more than 400,000 Hungarian Jews life during 1944. He put the number of Budapest Jews who escaped the Holocaust � people like financier George Soros and the late Congressman Tom Lantos � at about 120,000 only.
�The responsible Federal judge drew a summons, which was delivered to President George W Bush,� Wolz told The Budapest Sun via email.
�In his reply the President declared, �The US accepts the well-pled allegations of the complaint as true,�� the attorney claimed.
Wolz�s call for Hungarian survivors and heirs to register with his IPAS (international project group Auschwitz Sammelklagen (class action)), organization, for either further punitive class actions at US Federal Courts, or for settlement out of court, follows Bush�s visit to the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Israel this January.
Evil exists
Speaking at the site, the President was quoted by the Associated Press as saying, �I wish as many people as possible would come to this place. It is a sobering reminder that evil exists, and a call that when evil exists. we must resist it.�
Wolz, who says the President also said �We should have bombed Auschwitz,� at the memorial, insists that the US Air Force, which controlled the European skies in 1944, could easily have bombed the railways and the bridges bringing Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz. But the camp and its supply lines were taken off the final list of target proposals and never were bombed.
�Auschwitz survivors and heirs of victims are called to register by post with I.P.A.S., Bahnstr 24, D-42781 Haan-Gruiten,� Wolz said.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| So, Tony, do you have an actual opinion on this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| So, Tony, do you have an actual opinion on this? |
Isn't the article explanatory enough about how ludicrous this is? Its just another cash grab by another worthless damned lawyer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes I have an opinion about it. Of course I do and its all very sour. Although it may seem like the actions of one attorney, its one Jewish lawyer who will get a fat piece of the award if there is one. Further, Jews often defend all of humanity but this lawsuit and its subsequent award seems to be primarily for Jews. From what I understood many different types of people went to the camps. Will they be welcome as part of the class action?
If the ADL thinks the lawsuit is nonsense, they can file a friend of the court brief stating so.
The more l learn about WW2, the more often I come across things like this:
Solzhenitsyn puts 50% of Soviet genocidal deaths on Jews, that would the deaths of 30 million people . Things just aren't black and white for me any longer like when I was a child watching R.A.T. Patrol. Worse, The USA took Hitler's position against the Soviet Union as soon as they were able.
| Quote: |
Solzhenitsyn breaks last taboo of the revolution
Nobel laureate under fire for new book on the role of Jews in Soviet-era repression
This article appeared in the Guardian on Saturday January 25 2003 . It was last updated at 10:32 on January 27 2003.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, who first exposed the horrors of the Stalinist gulag, is now attempting to tackle one of the most sensitive topics of his writing career - the role of the Jews in the Bolshevik revolution and Soviet purges.
In his latest book Solzhenitsyn, 84, deals with one of the last taboos of the communist revolution: that Jews were as much perpetrators of the repression as its victims. Two Hundred Years Together - a reference to the 1772 partial annexation of Poland and Russia which greatly increased the Russian Jewish population - contains three chapters discussing the Jewish role in the revolutionary genocide and secret police purges of Soviet Russia.
But Jewish leaders and some historians have reacted furiously to the book, and questioned Solzhenitsyn's motives in writing it, accusing him of factual inaccuracies and of fanning the flames of anti-semitism in Russia.
Solzhenitsyn argues that some Jewish satire of the revolutionary period "consciously or unconsciously descends on the Russians" as being behind the genocide. But he states that all the nation's ethnic groups must share the blame, and that people shy away from speaking the truth about the Jewish experience.
In one remark which infuriated Russian Jews, he wrote: "If I would care to generalise, and to say that the life of the Jews in the camps was especially hard, I could, and would not face reproach for an unjust national generalisation. But in the camps where I was kept, it was different. The Jews whose experience I saw - their life was softer than that of others."
Yet he added: "But it is impossible to find the answer to the eternal question: who is to be blamed, who led us to our death? To explain the actions of the Kiev cheka [secret police] only by the fact that two thirds were Jews, is certainly incorrect."
Solzhenitsyn, awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1970, spent much of his life in Soviet prison camps, enduring persecution when he wrote about his experiences. He is currently in frail health, but in an interview given last month he said that Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides - and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them.
"My book was directed to empathise with the thoughts, feelings and the psychology of the Jews - their spiritual component," he said. "I have never made general conclusions about a people. I will always differentiate between layers of Jews. One layer rushed headfirst to the revolution. Another, to the contrary, was trying to stand back. The Jewish subject for a long time was considered prohibited. Zhabotinsky [a Jewish writer] once said that the best service our Russian friends give to us is never to speak aloud about us."
But Solzhenitsyn's book has caused controversy in Russia, where one Jewish leader said it was "not of any merit".
"This is a mistake, but even geniuses make mistakes," said Yevgeny Satanovsky, president of the Russian Jewish Congress. "Richard Wagner did not like the Jews, but was a great composer. Dostoyevsky was a great Russian writer, but had a very sceptical attitude towards the Jews.
"This is not a book about how the Jews and Russians lived together for 200 years, but one about how they lived apart after finding themselves on the same territory. This book is a weak one professionally. Factually, it is so bad as to be beyond criticism. As literature, it is not of any merit."
But DM Thomas, one of Solzhenitsyn's biographers, said that he did not think the book was fuelled by anti-semitism. "I would not doubt his sincerity. He says that he firmly supports the state of Israel. In his fiction and factual writing there are Jewish characters that he writes about who are bright, decent, anti-Stalinist people."
Professor Robert Service of Oxford University, an expert on 20th century Russian history, said that from what he had read about the book, Solzhenitsyn was "absolutely right".
Researching a book on Lenin, Prof Service came across details of how Trotsky, who was of Jewish origin, asked the politburo in 1919 to ensure that Jews were enrolled in the Red army. Trotsky said that Jews were disproportionately represented in the Soviet civil bureaucracy, including the cheka.
"Trotsky's idea was that the spread of anti-semitism was [partly down to] objections about their entrance into the civil service. There is something in this; that they were not just passive spectators of the revolution. They were part-victims and part-perpetrators.
"It is not a question that anyone can write about without a huge amount of bravery, and [it] needs doing in Russia because the Jews are quite often written about by fanatics. Mr Solzhenitsyn's book seems much more measured than that."
Yet others failed to see the need for Solzhenitsyn's pursuit of this particular subject at present. Vassili Berezhkov, a retired KGB colonel and historian of the secret services and the NKVD (the precursor of the KGB), said: "The question of ethnicity did not have any importance either in the revolution or the story of the NKVD. This was a social revolution and those who served in the NKVD and cheka were serving ideas of social change.
"If Solzhenitsyn writes that there were many Jews in the NKVD, it will increase the passions of anti-semitism, which has deep roots in Russian history. I think it is better not to discuss such a question now." |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Man....isn't this the kind of stuff that created the justification for putting them in Auschwitz in the first place?? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Suing for inaction at this point seems to have little redeeming moral implications. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Man....isn't this the kind of stuff that created the justification for putting them in Auschwitz in the first place?? |
Yeah kick it up! Whooooo! Rake the muck! Blood in the matzo, right? Yee haw! Seven Jewish bankers living three miles underground CAN'T be wrong! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Auschwitz Jews Sue USA for not helping enough |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Wolz believes the bombing of the railway bridges could have saved more than 400,000 Hungarian Jews life during 1944. |
Bwahahaha.
"Oh, darn it, the Allies bombed our railway bridges. OK, out of the cattle cars. You're all free to go." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What's worse?
1. A lawyer being sleazy so they can sue the US government?
2. A lawyer doing the above by taking advantage of holocaust survivors?
This is worse than the people hating Batman for not killing the Joker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wasn't there a holocaust lawyer who just got busted for defrauding holocaust victims to the tune of 200,000,000 US$?.
if such perfidy bothers you, do not read "the holocaust industy". reading books like that'll jar your brain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What's next? A theme park? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hmmm...what is next? french school children to "adopt" holocaust victims. done. make it a crime in many countries to ask questions? done. expansion of the term 'holocaust survivor" to include children born after liberation? check. erase the rules agreed to after WW2 regarding awarding of damages? check.
they can do whatever they want. they won. they write the rules. they are gods chosen people. the rest of us serve as they desire.
maybe its time to convert. anybody know a rabbi in korea? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hmmm...what is next? french school children to "adopt" holocaust victims. done. make it a crime in many countries to ask questions? done. expansion of the term 'holocaust survivor" to include children born after liberation? check. erase the rules agreed to after WW2 regarding awarding of damages? check. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mistermasan wrote: |
| maybe its time to convert. anybody know a rabbi in korea? |
I grew up in an area nearby to an adjoining community that had a large Jewish population (Brookline, MA).
I will say one thing: Jewish girls are generally pretty rambunctious in the sack. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tony_Balony wrote: |
Yes I have an opinion about it. Of course I do and its all very sour. Although it may seem like the actions of one attorney, its one Jewish lawyer who will get a fat piece of the award if there is one. Further, Jews often defend all of humanity but this lawsuit and its subsequent award seems to be primarily for Jews. From what I understood many different types of people went to the camps. Will they be welcome as part of the class action?
If the ADL thinks the lawsuit is nonsense, they can file a friend of the court brief stating so.
The more l learn about WW2, the more often I come across things like this:
Solzhenitsyn puts 50% of Soviet genocidal deaths on Jews, that would the deaths of 30 million people . Things just aren't black and white for me any longer like when I was a child watching R.A.T. Patrol. Worse, The USA took Hitler's position against the Soviet Union as soon as they were able.
| Quote: |
Solzhenitsyn breaks last taboo of the revolution
Nobel laureate under fire for new book on the role of Jews in Soviet-era repression
This article appeared in the Guardian on Saturday January 25 2003 . It was last updated at 10:32 on January 27 2003.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, who first exposed the horrors of the Stalinist gulag, is now attempting to tackle one of the most sensitive topics of his writing career - the role of the Jews in the Bolshevik revolution and Soviet purges.
In his latest book Solzhenitsyn, 84, deals with one of the last taboos of the communist revolution: that Jews were as much perpetrators of the repression as its victims. Two Hundred Years Together - a reference to the 1772 partial annexation of Poland and Russia which greatly increased the Russian Jewish population - contains three chapters discussing the Jewish role in the revolutionary genocide and secret police purges of Soviet Russia.
But Jewish leaders and some historians have reacted furiously to the book, and questioned Solzhenitsyn's motives in writing it, accusing him of factual inaccuracies and of fanning the flames of anti-semitism in Russia.
Solzhenitsyn argues that some Jewish satire of the revolutionary period "consciously or unconsciously descends on the Russians" as being behind the genocide. But he states that all the nation's ethnic groups must share the blame, and that people shy away from speaking the truth about the Jewish experience.
In one remark which infuriated Russian Jews, he wrote: "If I would care to generalise, and to say that the life of the Jews in the camps was especially hard, I could, and would not face reproach for an unjust national generalisation. But in the camps where I was kept, it was different. The Jews whose experience I saw - their life was softer than that of others."
Yet he added: "But it is impossible to find the answer to the eternal question: who is to be blamed, who led us to our death? To explain the actions of the Kiev cheka [secret police] only by the fact that two thirds were Jews, is certainly incorrect."
Solzhenitsyn, awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1970, spent much of his life in Soviet prison camps, enduring persecution when he wrote about his experiences. He is currently in frail health, but in an interview given last month he said that Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides - and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them.
"My book was directed to empathise with the thoughts, feelings and the psychology of the Jews - their spiritual component," he said. "I have never made general conclusions about a people. I will always differentiate between layers of Jews. One layer rushed headfirst to the revolution. Another, to the contrary, was trying to stand back. The Jewish subject for a long time was considered prohibited. Zhabotinsky [a Jewish writer] once said that the best service our Russian friends give to us is never to speak aloud about us."
But Solzhenitsyn's book has caused controversy in Russia, where one Jewish leader said it was "not of any merit".
"This is a mistake, but even geniuses make mistakes," said Yevgeny Satanovsky, president of the Russian Jewish Congress. "Richard Wagner did not like the Jews, but was a great composer. Dostoyevsky was a great Russian writer, but had a very sceptical attitude towards the Jews.
"This is not a book about how the Jews and Russians lived together for 200 years, but one about how they lived apart after finding themselves on the same territory. This book is a weak one professionally. Factually, it is so bad as to be beyond criticism. As literature, it is not of any merit."
But DM Thomas, one of Solzhenitsyn's biographers, said that he did not think the book was fuelled by anti-semitism. "I would not doubt his sincerity. He says that he firmly supports the state of Israel. In his fiction and factual writing there are Jewish characters that he writes about who are bright, decent, anti-Stalinist people."
Professor Robert Service of Oxford University, an expert on 20th century Russian history, said that from what he had read about the book, Solzhenitsyn was "absolutely right".
Researching a book on Lenin, Prof Service came across details of how Trotsky, who was of Jewish origin, asked the politburo in 1919 to ensure that Jews were enrolled in the Red army. Trotsky said that Jews were disproportionately represented in the Soviet civil bureaucracy, including the cheka.
"Trotsky's idea was that the spread of anti-semitism was [partly down to] objections about their entrance into the civil service. There is something in this; that they were not just passive spectators of the revolution. They were part-victims and part-perpetrators.
"It is not a question that anyone can write about without a huge amount of bravery, and [it] needs doing in Russia because the Jews are quite often written about by fanatics. Mr Solzhenitsyn's book seems much more measured than that."
Yet others failed to see the need for Solzhenitsyn's pursuit of this particular subject at present. Vassili Berezhkov, a retired KGB colonel and historian of the secret services and the NKVD (the precursor of the KGB), said: "The question of ethnicity did not have any importance either in the revolution or the story of the NKVD. This was a social revolution and those who served in the NKVD and cheka were serving ideas of social change.
"If Solzhenitsyn writes that there were many Jews in the NKVD, it will increase the passions of anti-semitism, which has deep roots in Russian history. I think it is better not to discuss such a question now." |
|
How do you feel about the leader of the Soviet Union being an ethnic Christian? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
