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Poll: What American city will be nuked by rogue Americans?
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What American city will get nuked by rogue American government to faciliate martial law?

Baltimore

[ 2 ]

Denver

[ 1 ]

Detroit

26%

[ 6 ]

Seattle

[ 2 ]

San Francisco

39%

[ 9 ]

Cleveland

13%

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 23

Author

Message

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject:

loose_ends wrote:

...the WTC buildings were brought down via controlled demolition. I will make that claim and back it with evidence. However, I can only speculate who/when/how the event was prepared and planned.

Surely, you are going somewhere with this. Clearly you wholly reject bin Laden as the perpetrator. You might even deny that bin Laden truly even exists. What, then, does it mean or suggest to you when you allege the WTC bldgs. were brought down via controlled demolition?

loose_ends

Joined: 23 Jul 2007

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

loose_ends wrote:

...the WTC buildings were brought down via controlled demolition. I will make that claim and back it with evidence. However, I can only speculate who/when/how the event was prepared and planned.

It is my opinion that WTC collapses were controlled demolition (CD). I am willing to make the claim and support it with evidence.

However, I cannot make any claims about who did it and support it with evidence; I can merely speculate and give reasons why.

Ok? (I hope we can move on from that)

About Osama Bin Laden. I believe he is real. I believe his cause is real. I don't believe he is a CIA asset, such that he is actually working for the CIA as a paid bogey man. I believe that it is possible that he was part of the 9-11 plotting. However I do not believe he was the only planner, if a planner at all.

Let me explain using an analogy.

I want to fake a robbery of my house and get insurance money for it (I'm not implying 9-11 was set up for insurance reasons, just an analogy here). I recruit an accomplice and tell him that we are going to rob a house together. He is unaware that it is my house. We rob it together, sell the goods and make a profit. I anonymously rat him out to the police, collect the insurance and destroy any incriminating evidence.

In the above scenario, the recruited robber is a part of the conspiracy, but unaware of the fullness of it. Thus he is a patsy and an accomplice all at the same time.

So I believe that real hijackers, planners, financial backers were involved in the plot. However they were unaware of the fullness of the plot. They were unaware that they were being set up to succeed and then immediately blamed.

The above is similar to the allegations of the 93 WTC bombing. [/i]

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:06 am Post subject:

loose_ends wrote:

About Osama Bin Laden. I believe he is real. I believe his cause is real. I don't believe he is a CIA asset, such that he is actually working for the CIA as a paid bogey man. I believe that it is possible that he was part of the 9-11 plotting. However I do not believe he was the only planner, if a planner at all...

So I believe that real hijackers, planners, financial backers were involved in the plot. However they were unaware of the fullness of the plot. They were unaware that they were being set up to succeed and then immediately blamed.

I prefer to leave the analogical jiujitsu out and that you simply articulate your position in straightforward language.

You believe larger forces were at work around bin Laden, cultivating him and his movement without his knowing it, and then taking advantage of the pretext he created for them.

Who are the "they" exactly in this configuration? The "rogue elements" within the military-industrial complex? And what are their interests? And what is W. Bush's role in this? Are the President and his govt in control of the United States and its security forces or is it the other-way-around -- or is it something else entirely?

loose_ends

Joined: 23 Jul 2007

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:00 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

I prefer to leave the analogical jiujitsu out and that you simply articulate your position in straightforward language.

Fair enough.

Gopher wrote:

You believe larger forces were at work around bin Laden, cultivating him and his movement without his knowing it, and then taking advantage of the pretext he created for them.

(bolding mine)

So that we don't get into trouble later let me remind you of my previous statement.

Quote:

So to be clear, I believe larger forces were at work because I claim the WTC were brought down by CD. But in analyzing who represents those forces, currently I can only speak of possibilities.

Gopher wrote:

Who are the "they" exactly in this configuration? The "rogue elements" within the military-industrial complex? And what are their interests? And what is W. Bush's role in this? Are the President and his govt in control of the United States and its security forces or is it the other-way-around -- or is it something else entirely?

Rogue individual(s) of the following are all possibilities in my opinion; military-industrial complex, CIA, white house. I do not believe it to be a vast conspiracy by many people. As long as only a few key individuals knew and used their power to manipulate unchecked, they could cause many more people to participate in the conspiracy unknowingly.

For example, lets say the VP was a main conspirator. He has vested interest in the military-industrial complex and an allegiance to an ideology. He would serve as the ultimate unchecked conspirator. Key individuals would be needed to allow certain things to occur. For example, a decision maker for the WTC security company would be needed to allow a security stand down. At least one decision maker of the CIA and military would probably be needed too. They would need to have vested interests in the MIC and an ideology too.

Now the above people can give orders and others will follow without much questioning. For example the VP could have arranged for many war games to have been played out on those days limiting the amount of available fighters. No one would need to know exactly why that date was chosen and why so many. People may have questioned it but in the end the boss decides. So the people taking orders contribute unknowingly to the conspiracy.

As for the security. The single conspirator (decision maker) for the security company ensures a selected company takes care of building repairs the months leading up to 9-11. At least one key decision maker would be needed in the company. These two fellows have a vested interest in the MIC and perhaps an ideology.

Most importantly (for CD hypothesis) at least a small group of people, posing as building workers would be needed to plant the demolition. These people are hired hands, perhaps outsourced from a different country, terrorists being duped, or very rogue individuals from the US that are heavily invested in the MIC or CIA. Their actions are known by both the decision maker for the security company and the repair company. Their actions are strategically hidden from any legit workers.

About the Prez��

The president could very well have known something was going to happen, but chose not to do anything about it. An equally vested interest in the MIC could be the reason. This would allow him to play stupid and more easily play the part of a concerned leader. Perhaps he is a great actor (politician).

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

regicide

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:56 am Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

Are you now? Could you kindly compare your credentials to one of the many scholars that believe in this matter?

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:25 am Post subject:

regicide wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

Are you now? Could you kindly compare your credentials to one of the many scholars that believe in this matter?

No. I'd gladly compare something else that's equally relevant, but Flickr doesn't allow that kind of picture.

regicide

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:39 am Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

regicide wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

Are you now? Could you kindly compare your credentials to one of the many scholars that believe in this matter?

No. I'd gladly compare something else that's equally relevant, but Flickr doesn't allow that kind of picture.

photobucket does--would you like it here , or in a PM?

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:

regicide wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

regicide wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

Are you now? Could you kindly compare your credentials to one of the many scholars that believe in this matter?

No. I'd gladly compare something else that's equally relevant, but Flickr doesn't allow that kind of picture.

photobucket does--would you like it here , or in a PM?

Well played, sir. Laughing

I knew this thread would be good for something.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject:

Hmmmm...threads on Pearl Harbor and controlled demolitions of the WTC. Must be a full moon. Yep. Just looked out the window. Feb. 21, full moon.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Hmmmm...threads on Pearl Harbor and controlled demolitions of the WTC. Must be a full moon.

Yep. Just looked out the window. Feb. 21, full moon. Rolling Eyes

Did you eat peanuts yesterday? If not, you're screwed. My Seoul Metro cafeteria class (yes, I go there and eat lunch with them Confused

) told me you have to do that at the first new moon (full moon ?) of the new year to ensure good luck. There was a huge tray of roasted peanuts that everyone was partaking in. I filled up my suitcase at my students' suggestion.

(Most important post ever).

loose_ends

Joined: 23 Jul 2007

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

Anytime Gopher. Thanks for playing nicely. More importantly, thanks for giving us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist of a different kind;

You previously wrote:

Quote:

"All the good people," huh? Still claiming altruism, I see. In any case, my answer to your question is an unqualified "yes." I say this without the slightest doubt. They fabricate and they lie. Start with Oliver Stone and Michael Moore and work your way out, through the New Left of the 1960s, to today's 9/11 people and the OP's baseless allegation.

So you'd better keep your eye on the "evil left", and expose their alleged conspired lies when you have a chance.

I'll keep my eyes on the "rogue" elements of the MIC/Whitehouse/intelligence agencies and be sure to expose their alleged conspired lies whenever I have a chance.

We'll keep each others backs, mmmkay?

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Thanks for offering us a look into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

Well put.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

[

I'm fairly certain that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the intellectual equivalent of "Ha ha! Made you look!"

I'm fairly certain that "9/11 conspiracy theories" and "intellectual" aren't often found together in the same sentence. The above quote is one of the rare exceptions. Laughing

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