|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
norman
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: teaching without TESOL |
 |
|
| Do I need a ESL or TESOL to teach in Korea? My research shows that having a Celta may not equate to higher compensation versus just having my masters degree and teach in school that is english driven. Is this true? I have a masters degree in education with some teaching experience and a native Us citizen and traveling as an independent. Do I need a recruiter or does submitting resume with these credentials going to get me offers? How tough is the background check to pass, if any, I have a few skeletons? Any recommended locations that are not too far from seaboard with perks? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a BA.
I didn't need a TEFL/TESOL certificate, or a CELTA for my university job.
The same goes for my public school job before this. Or my hagwon job before that.
I didn't need ANY certification.
You don't need a CELTA (or a certificate from a company like American TESOL or TEFL International) in Korea -- especially if you are going to teach kids. Can you learn something taking one of these courses? You bet. I knock the CELTA a lot, but I like the British Council's website for Task-Based Learning activities.
The rule of thumb I tell people to follow goes something like this:
If you are....
... in Korea for just a year or two, and have no plans to teach elsewhere after, don't bother with any TEFL certification.
... in Korea for 3 to 4 years, plan to move on and teach in another country, or stay working a public school job, get a low-cost, approved TEFL course (many are below $400, and can be done via distance. Just make sure they are over 100 hours). If you plan to move around the world and teach in countries that respect the British system, then get a CELTA. All of these certifications (including the CELTA) are useless in the USA.
... in Korea for 5 or more years, you should get, or make plans to get, some kind of teaching certification or an MA in Education/TESOL. You could get a CELTA, but if you've been teaching for more than 4 years, I'd say it's a waste of money.
Remember, the CELTA costs about US $1,500 to $2,500, depending on where you take it. The full TEFL International course is going to be similiar in price (it was last I checked). Korea is naturally much more expensive for the CELTA. One could almost say they gouge you here (when they even offer it), but maybe it's the extra cost of buildings or something -- who knows. Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of).
I added it all up, and found that I'd be out over 4 million won if I took the CELTA, counting lost work time. Even at a 100,000 won per hour raise for having it, that will take you more than a few years to recoup the costs at a public school job (assuming you are at a school that gives you a meager 100,000 to 200,000 won per month raise for having one). In Korea, a low-cost (500,000 won) online course that is greater than 100 hours will get you the same raise as a CELTA. For a list of these courses, see Dave's front page at www.eslcafe.com. ITTT TEFL is a paid advertiser, and is accepted. Also, KEI-TEFL is approved by the Seoul office of Education, and you can opt to take an on-site course from them.
By the way, CELTA now has a long-term course that you can do over several months. I'm not up to speed on what that entails, so I can't comment. I'm sure you'll pay just as much for the base costs, as if you did the full 5 week CELTA.
Remember: MANY OF THESE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY ACCREDITED BY THE COMPANIES/GROUPS THEY ARE OFFERED BY.
Would you seek medical care from a doctor who is only a doctor because he passed his own accreditation to become a doctor, and therefore certified himself? Now how about paying that doctor $1,500 to $2,500 for medical care which you don't need, and missing 5 weeks of paid work in the process?
Save your money for a course from an accredited institution -- that's my advice.
Again, I work at a university, and I didn't need a CELTA or a piece of paper from another program like TEFL International to get my job here. I didn't need to drop 2.4 million won on a CELTA. If you want the most expensive around, then 4.4 million for a TEFL from Sookmyung will get you a certification from the new incoming education boss's own school. She's gone out of her way to promote it since her nomination, and at 4.4 million won per student, I can see why.. All of those courses have their uses, but they may not prepare you for the age group you plan to teach.
You don't need one to work at a hagwon, either.
It's my personal opinion, as someone who has been teaching in Korea for over five years, that you would be better off getting an MA-TESOL from a reputable university after taking time off from school and saving some money for it.
Last edited by bassexpander on Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GreenlightmeansGO
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A CELTA is a prerequisite if you wish to develop a career in English Language Teaching. I would recommend that you study the CELTA rather than an MA due to 4 weeks being quicker than a year.
More and more employers in Korea are becoming selective. I know this from experience and they would select someone with a CELTA/TESOL than a guy with just a degree.
I am sure that mouse would be able to vouch for me that a TEFL is good. Those online/intensive courses are shite. They are a quick route for a raise but they don't develop your EFL Career.
Good luck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sometimes bachelors and masters degree jobs here pay the same salary.
Korea tends to value on-the-spot expediency over the hiring of skills-invested teachers and highly capable instructors. For example, university jobs here can be had by bachelors degree holders with no teaching experience at all, much less any at the university level, surprisingly. Therefore, there's no practical, not to say intrinsic, significance to the fact that jobs here at the highest level of education (e.g. university) hire those who 1) don't have a TESOL/TEFL certificate and 2) would outside Korea basically be qualified to be assistants at kindergartens or substitute teachers making $80 a day.
To be honest, this would, and should, never happen in a country serious about education. Sadly, M.A. holders frequently get passed over for jobs in Korea because people with B.A.'s will simply take the job without negotiating pay.
With you M.A., you'll be alright with fielding job offers without a recruiter, though. Look at the job board on this website. There are good jobs to be had and some will pay you more for your experience and credentials. I would recommend the CELTA for learning practical, in-class teaching skills, which despite its acronym can be applied to teach any level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Whistleblower wrote: |
A CELTA is a prerequisite if you wish to develop a career in English Language Teaching.
|
Straight-up false.
It can help in countries which follow the British system. It's useless in the USA. It's most certainly not needed here. Most foreigners teaching at universities in Seoul do not have a CELTA.
Again, see my above post for what's needed here. No need to repeat it for the sake of those trying to sell you a 2.4 million won TEFL course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bassexpander wrote: |
I have a BA.
I didn't need a TEFL/TESOL certificate, or a CELTA for my university job.
The same goes for my public school job before this. Or my hagwon job before that.
I didn't need ANY certification.
You don't need a CELTA (or a certificate from a company like American TESOL or TEFL International) in Korea -- especially if you are going to teach kids. Can you learn something taking one of these courses? You bet. I knock the CELTA a lot, but I like the British Council's website for Task-Based Learning activities.
The rule of thumb I tell people to follow goes something like this:
If you are....
... in Korea for just a year or two, and have no plans to teach elsewhere after, don't bother with any TEFL certification.
... in Korea for 3 to 4 years, plan to move on and teach in another country, or stay working a public school job, get a low-cost, approved TEFL course (many are below $400, and can be done via distance. Just make sure they are over 100 hours). If you plan to move around the world and teach in countries that respect the British system, then get a CELTA. All of these certifications (including the CELTA) are useless in the USA.
... in Korea for 5 or more years, you should get, or make plans to get, some kind of teaching certification or an MA in Education/TESOL. You could get a CELTA, but if you've been teaching for more than 4 years, I'd say it's a waste of money.
Remember, the CELTA costs about US $1,500 to $2,500, depending on where you take it. The full TEFL International course is going to be similiar in price (it was last I checked). Korea is naturally much more expensive for the CELTA. One could almost say they gouge you here (when they even offer it), but maybe it's the extra cost of buildings or something -- who knows. Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of).
I added it all up, and found that I'd be out over 4 million won if I took the CELTA, counting lost work time. Even at a 100,000 won per hour raise for having it, that will take you more than a few years to recoup the costs at a public school job (assuming you are at a school that gives you a meager 100,000 to 200,000 won per month raise for having one). In Korea, a low-cost (500,000 won) online course that is greater than 100 hours will get you the same raise as a CELTA. For a list of these courses, see Dave's front page at www.eslcafe.com. ITTT TEFL is a paid advertiser, and is accepted. Also, KEI-TEFL is approved by the Seoul office of Education, and you can opt to take an on-site course from them.
By the way, CELTA now has a long-term course that you can do over several months. I'm not up to speed on what that entails, so I can't comment. I'm sure you'll pay just as much for the base costs, as if you did the full 5 week CELTA.
Remember: MANY OF THESE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY ACCREDITED BY THE COMPANIES/GROUPS THEY ARE OFFERED BY.
Would you seek medical care from a doctor who is only a doctor because he passed his own accreditation to become a doctor, and therefore certified himself? Now how about paying that doctor $1,500 to $2,500 for medical care which you don't need, and missing 5 weeks of paid work in the process?
Save your money for a course from an accredited institution -- that's my advice.
Again, I work at a university, and I didn't need a CELTA or a piece of paper from another program like TEFL International to get my job here. I didn't need to drop 2.4 million won on a CELTA. If you want the most expensive around, then 4.4 million for a TEFL from Sookmyung will get you a certification from the new incoming education boss's own school. She's gone out of her way to promote it since her nomination, and at 4.4 million won per student, I can see why.. All of those courses have their uses, but they may not prepare you for the age group you plan to teach.
You don't need one to work at a hagwon, either.
It's my personal opinion, as someone who has been teaching in Korea for over five years, that you would be better off getting an MA-TESOL from a reputable university after taking time off from school and saving some money for it. |
Great post - spot-on advise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: teaching without TESOL |
|
|
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=112901&highlight=
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=114707&highlight=
Norman: Evaluate for yourself the two message threads above which extensively details my experiences of taking both the completely on-site CELTA in Seoul and the KEI-TEFL online course which has an optional, pay-for just one or two day teaching practice that Bassexpander frequently mentions and supports. Of course, I loved, value, and wholly support the full on-site CELTA, because I've taken both courses.
| norman wrote: |
| Do I need a ESL or TESOL to teach in Korea? My research shows that having a Celta may not equate to higher compensation versus just having my masters degree and teach in school that is english driven. Is this true? I have a masters degree in education with some teaching experience and a native Us citizen and traveling as an independent. Do I need a recruiter or does submitting resume with these credentials going to get me offers? How tough is the background check to pass, if any, I have a few skeletons? Any recommended locations that are not too far from seaboard with perks? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's a fun read:
http://www.answers.com/topic/snake-oil-1?cat=technology
| Quote: |
Snake oil originally came from China, where it is called sh�y�u (蛇油). There, it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as a pain reliever in China. Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources, so snake oil was actually a plausible remedy for joint pain as these are thought to have inflammation-reducing properties. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.
Chinese labourers on railroad gangs � involved in building the Transcontinental Railroad to link North America coast to coast � gave snake oil to Europeans with joint pain. When rubbed on the skin at the painful site, snake oil was claimed to bring relief. This claim was ridiculed by rival medicine salesmen, especially those selling patent medicines. In time, snake oil became a generic name for many compounds marketed as panaceas or miraculous remedies, whose ingredients were usually secret, unidentified, or mis-characterized � and mostly inert or ineffective, although the placebo effect might provide some relief for whatever the problem might have been.
Patented snake oil remedies actually originated in England, where a patent was granted to Richard Stoughton's Elixir in 1712. [1] Since there was no Federal regulation concerning safety and effectiveness of drugs until the 1906 Food and Drugs Act. [2] and various medicine salesmen or manufacturers seldom had enough skills in analytical chemistry to analyze the contents and actually find out what, if anything, made snake oil the miracle medicine it was claimed to be, snake oil became the archetype of hoax. American snake fats do not have EPA contents as high as those of the Chinese water snake. The American snake oils were possibly less efficient pain relievers than the original Chinese snake oil � further promoting the hoax stereotype.
The snake oil peddler became a stock character in Western movies: a travelling "doctor" with dubious credentials, selling some medicine (such as snake oil) with boisterous marketing hype, often supported by pseudo-scientific evidence, typically bogus. To enhance sales, an accomplice in the crowd (a "shill") would often "attest" the value of the product in an effort to provoke buying enthusiasm. The "doctor" would prudently leave town before his customers realized that they had been cheated. This practice is also called "grifting" and its practitioners "grifters".
W. C. Fields portrayed a Western frontier American snake oil salesman in Poppy (1936), complete with a surreptitious crowd accomplice. His demonstration (from the back of a buckboard transparently fraudulent �- to the movie audience) of a miraculous cure for hoarseness ignited a comic purchasing frenzy. Jim Dale gave a testament to the persuasive power of the snake oil salesman in the Disney film Pete's Dragon, as the greedy "Doc" Terminus. Dealing with a crowd of people he had conned on a prior visit, Terminus turns them from angry vengeance-seekers to believers once more, paying top dollar for Terminus' products despite their previous ineffectiveness.
English musician and comedy writer Vivian Stanshall satirised a miracle cosmetic as "Rillago�the great ape repellent" and many of J. B. Morton's Beachcomber books and radio programmes included short spoof advertisements for "Snibbo" a fictional treatment allegedly tackling various unlikely human conditions.
In The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain presents Aunt Polly as a true believer in various sorts of snake oil, though not always in the form of an alleged medicine. She also adopted cold showers as a cure-all at one point in Tom's childhood. For a time she insisted that Tom Sawyer take painkillers every day, simply because she thought it would be good for him, until Tom gave some to a cat, who then acted crazy. After seeing the cat, Aunt Polly no longer forces Tom to take pain killers.
In a more modern appearance of grifting in pop-culture, the collaboration of Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson in 1983 produced the hit single Say Say Say. The music video accompanying this single depicts McCartney as the salesman selling a dubious strength elixr from the back of a truck and Jackson as his accomplice amongst the audience.
The practice of selling dubious remedies for real (or imagined) ailments still occurs today, albeit with some updated marketing techniques. Claims of cures for chronic diseases (for example, diabetes mellitus), for which there are only symptomatic treatments available from mainstream medicine, are especially common. The term snake oil peddling is used as a derogatory term to describe such practices. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sure, buy a "100 hour" TEFL online rather than attend a full on-site TEFL (i.e. non-virtual). I don't suggest people go online to get real about teaching.
I felt so pathetic about my online certificate. Maybe it's because university wasn't that hard for me, and so I felt online multiple choice tests were rinky dink, and that CELTA gave me 2 TEFL professors evaluating my teaching practices, giving me personal tutoring and full reports on observations over the course of a month, 9am to 6pm, and giving me (and my 5 other classmates) the practice of teaching 2 different levels of students suited me better.
Online doesn't compare to on-site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
