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There are alien life forms in the universe |
I dont know .. but im going with yes |
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80% |
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well cant be sure. but im saying no.. |
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Total Votes : 57 |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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jkelly80 wrote: |
I don't think Occam's razor is canonical. Kant, Leibnitz, and Walter Chatton all came up with 'anti-razors' at some point. Not that I think you're making a bad argument, but I didn't think one could cite violation of Occam's Razor as a fallacy. |
It's kind of the guiding principle of science. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Because our minds hadn�t evolved until a couple hundred years later when some humans slowly put forward evidence until finally the wright brothers showed it was possible! But that all took a couple hundred years of the human mind growing smarter! So the EVIDENCE really is history just look out what we have achieved so far! |
I disagree with your use of the word 'evolved'. There is no evidence that people today are any smarter than they were 500 years ago, or even 5,000 years ago. Our knowledge of the workings of the natural world is vastly greater now, but our innate intelligence is the same as it was way back when.
We are not smarter than Leonardo; we do have access to technical knowledge and skills he didn't. That's all. |
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wormholes101

Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I disagree with your use of the word 'evolved'. There is no evidence that people today are any smarter than they were 500 years ago, or even 5,000 years ago. Our knowledge of the workings of the natural world is vastly greater now, but our innate intelligence is the same as it was way back when. |
Is there any evidence that the physical human brain is different from 200,000 years ago? Don't think so...
The inventions that have really helped human society along are writing and the scientific method. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Printing and Electronic transmission haven't help at all.
Interfacing and intercourse. |
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wormholes101

Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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cbclark4 wrote: |
Printing and Electronic transmission haven't help at all.
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Facetious? It depends on which way you look at it, doesn't it? Not much point in printing and electronic transmission if there's nothing to read. |
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itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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BreakfastInBed wrote: |
Let's give the aliens their technologically advanced super spaceships. So what? The universe is huge. Just as it's arrogant and presumptuous to think we're alone in it, it's equally, if not more so, to think not only that we've been found, but that we're some kind of popular roadside attraction for extra terrestrial tourists. How many times have we been visited? By how many different species? With a universe to explore they keep coming back to us? |
good point! WHY NOT., very possible that we are just part of the tour!
the universe is so big what if there are billions of planets with life in them!
even if 100 different species came here.. thats nothing... be a great tour never the less! something I would be interested in doing..
RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I imagine that I can reach through my computer screen and bonk you on the nose. It's imaginable, so how long do I have to wait until that's possible?
Okay, okay, I've got a better one. The Earth is hit by a comet made of cheese curds. World hunger is cured. Over a couple generations, humans evolve away our noses because we can't bear the smell. Where can I go to hide from the cheese-curd comet? I just imagined it, so by your logic it must be coming this way. |
now you are just being silly..
How about this...
I tell Galileo hey don�t worry 400 years from now, man will reach the moon strapped to a rocket fueled by petroleum
Or how about this!
Tell Alexander don�t worry one day war will be much easier! You won�t have to run someone through with a sword! Just point a little machine at someone and pull the trigger and he will be dead you want even have a break a sweat! and walking for 7 months to just reach your enermy hahahaha forget that buddy! we fly!
Or tell the house wife back the 1800's don�t worry love, one day can put that chicken into a box and it will be cooked in 10 minutes! chit tell the house wife in 1940's
tell my grandma back in the 1930's don�t worry grandma you will be able to write me a letter when you are old and it wont take 2 months to arrive you can just push a bottom and it will arrive across the world in 2 seconds!
get my drift!!
Don�t get to carried away by thinking of spaghetti monsters, .. also in the future you wont be using a monitor! That will be primitive!
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I disagree with your use of the word 'evolved'. There is no evidence that people today are any smarter than they were 500 years ago, or even 5,000 years ago. Our knowledge of the workings of the natural world is vastly greater now, but our innate intelligence is the same as it was way back when.
We are not smarter than Leonardo; we do have access to technical knowledge and skills he didn't. That's all. |
what I mean is, evolve through time! 5000 years ago they didnt invent the car did they! they had the wheel and thats it! took them 5000 years to get any further! if they were as smart as us now they would have already steam rolled ahead! look at the past 100 years! HUGE BREAK THROUGH!
everything came now...
why? becuase our minds have step by step achieved greatness we wait every 100 years for a great mind to think up something.. when I mean evolution of the mind I mean gradual steps in time of the brain processing new information..
we have a car today how? from the resourses of the land! everything is made from land.. its not like we ordered the parts from another planet and it got dropped off here.. but the human mind didnt no how to make it 5000 years ago.. so evolve I mean time..
so the human mind in 5000 years from now will be able to achieve more than 10000 years ago..
so 100.000 years from now with the access to technical knowledge and skills will mean we can achieve things we cant even imagine now! so intergalatic travel seems impossible now! because we cant see the workings of it.. but over time it will be so obvious to the students in that time.. and they would look back at us and thing damn those guys had no clue! just like I look back at history and say DAMN you guys had no clue!
we are nothing on the time line! 2000-2100 0- 5000 - nothing!!!
so if it seems impossible to our ancestors why isnt it possible for the future race? |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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itaewonguy wrote: |
now you are just being silly..
How about this...
I tell Galileo hey don�t worry 400 years from now, man will reach the moon strapped to a rocket fueled by petroleum
Or how about this!
Tell Alexander don�t worry one day war will be much easier! You won�t have to run someone through with a sword! Just point a little machine at someone and pull the trigger and he will be dead you want even have a break a sweat! and walking for 7 months to just reach your enermy hahahaha forget that buddy! we fly!
Or tell the house wife back the 1800's don�t worry love, one day can put that chicken into a box and it will be cooked in 10 minutes! chit tell the house wife in 1940's
tell my grandma back in the 1930's don�t worry grandma you will be able to write me a letter when you are old and it wont take 2 months to arrive you can just push a bottom and it will arrive across the world in 2 seconds!
get my drift!!
Don�t get to carried away by thinking of spaghetti monsters, .. also in the future you wont be using a monitor! That will be primitive!
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Niven's Seventh Law: Any damn fool can predict the past. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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itaewonguy wrote: |
tell my grandma back in the 1930's don�t worry grandma you will be able to write me a letter when you are old and it wont take 2 months to arrive you can just push a bottom and it will arrive across the world in 2 seconds!
get my drift!! |
I think we're more than aware that what might have seemed impossible to the average person eventually became possible. However, why not introduce a huge track record of failure as evidence of the limits of organic beings? You seem to take the whole track record of producing life out of a test tube as good evidence life needed a god or some kind of leg up. Noticed lately any good developments in that FTL research? Bah! They've all been failures!
Look. We get it. That's why we're not saying "impossible". You can stop trying to convince us with your lame examples. We knew this before you even set foot in Korea.
Yes, it's possible aliens are visiting earth. It's possible the eye witness evidence is a product of human psychology, hoaxes, and government misinformation.
Got anything more to debate? |
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itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: |
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mindmetoo wrote: |
Noticed lately any good developments in that FTL research? Bah! They've all been failures!
Got anything more to debate? |
still waiting for your evidence of the life in a testtube and the animo acid break down into protiens , hows the research coming along? take your time ill be around for ohhhh another 60 years or so.. goodluck..
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Look. We get it. That's why we're not saying "impossible". You can stop trying to convince us with your lame examples. We knew this before you even set foot in Korea.
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Problem is when you were still thinking about coming over to Korea I was here already and knew what was really going on! You were still trying to climb out of the well you were living in to come over here...
You see you really don�t get it! And that�s the problem with you...
You live in a reality which you have created and don�t want to hear anyone else...
You think you know everything! And have all the answers! But you don�t!
And you will never admit it never met such an insecure person as yourself.
You got anything else you want to debunk? It�s amazing you believe man landed on the moon!
ooopss my mistake of course you dont believe that!
Quote: |
Yes, it's possible aliens are visiting earth. It's possible the eye witness evidence is a product of human psychology, hoaxes, and government misinformation. |
great we agree on something!
to bad you cant use your brain to think out of the box! guess thats why
all your useless knowledge is being taught to 7 year olds at DING DING DANG english school in seoul!
ohh well guess your qualified for that!
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itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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RACETRAITOR wrote: |
Niven's Seventh Law: Any damn fool can predict the past. |
and your point is?
either you believe its posible or not.. and if you do..
then why not discuss it! its not a competition ok!!
stop foaming at the mouth and wipe away that snot from your nose ok!!
and come back and engage in the conversation when you have calmed down ok..
damn!! you and mind me too have some serious issues! |
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flummuxt

Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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My money's on the Red Sox.
In 8. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: |
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wormholes101 wrote: |
cbclark4 wrote: |
Printing and Electronic transmission haven't help at all.
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Facetious? It depends on which way you look at it, doesn't it? Not much point in printing and electronic transmission if there's nothing to read. |
No sense in having something to read if no one ever said it.
No sense in saying something if no one ever thought it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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There is an enormous difference between a person who knows next to nothing about something compared to someone who has training in the field when they think outside the box. The first produces nonsense and the second produces breakthroughs.
People who say 'everything is possible' clearly don't know very much about what they are talking about. People who know a lot about what they are talking about know what kinds of things are possible and what kind of things are not possible.
Quote: |
Is there any evidence that the physical human brain is different from 200,000 years ago? Don't think so...
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What's your point? |
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Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Location: the Straight Talk Express
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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It would be nice, for once, if we could debate the big questions without ad hominem. Also, speaking of "for once" I am somewhat sympathetic to Itaewonguy's position. If someone had said, in 1789 during the French Revolution, that in 200 years time they will, with the Brits, invent an airplane that can travel twice the speed of sound, you'd be regarded as a loony at best.
The debate regarding alien visitors is divided between two camps: (1) people who say there's mountains of evidence for alien visits and (2) people who say there's no evidence at all for alien visits.
I'm a raving atheist and evolutionist (and obviously love science), but I'm dissatisfied with (1) and (2) above. However, since there's no objective way of settling the matter (and because alien visits seem extremely unlikely given the truly massive distances involved) I've gotta side with the skeptics here, I'm afraid, and here's why: We know that space-time can be manipulated, distorted. It's a simple fact of relativity and, actually, the key to understanding the entire cosmos, as those of you who've read Hawking will be well aware. But what you've got to take into account is that enormously massive (yet simultaneously tiny) entities are responsible for these radical distortions of space (black holes) and I'd be interested to see - from the pro-UFO lobby - how they suggest this is done by the aliens in order to travel those ridiculous distances.
mindmetoo is basically saying that unless we have absolutely compelling evidence for alien visits - video evidence and personal testimony (no matter how authoritative the person) don't qualify - one is entitled to not believe. To contrast, it is impossible to believe that the Sun orbits the Earth. It is impossible to believe that man was created at the time of the Agricultural Revolution (5-6000 years ago). It is impossible to disbelieve in T-Rex, because of the evidence, which nobody disputes. What we need is this kind of certainty. Unless certainty is achieved, you're fuct.
Last edited by Justin Hale on Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein |
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