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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| I've now tried 6 linux distros and while most of them had something that needed to be done I found it quite easy to look up the solution on the internet in each case. Not sure why everyone makes such a big deal about it. |
because windows just works.
strait out of the install everything works - linux, well I've spent 90 minutes trying to get the internet working and I think that's 90 minutes more than i should have to spend. And it still doesn't work. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I agree, but I also think linux is quickly getting better and windows is quickly getting worse. I think most distros will be superior to windows even in ease of use, possibly within the next two years. But that's a tangent.
I think at this point linux is about trying out a few distros and finding what you like/what works. If something is giving you crap, just try a different distro! That's the genius of the live CD. It's fun and easy, and I bet the internet will work "out of the box" on most of them. |
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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| ^ what distro are you using now then JJ? |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| I'm still browsing actually. I'm trying to make up my mind whether I want to use a gnome, kde, or xfce system. Everything is still so new to me I need some time to get a little more familiar with them all. Also, just been booting xp this week since it's actually installed and I've been a bit busy. |
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sargx
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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There is no way that Linux can be a serious contender for windows or Mac o/s when it's such a pain in the butt to get running. And how can it be when it can't run most commercial software, has 100+ different distributions to choose from resulting in a fractured market that is already for the fringe.
Just because a product is open source and free doesn't make it good.
...
Essentially at this point I feel that Linux is not a mature or even close to mature o/s. I would like to add that I am familiar with shell access and using command line code. I've used this when maintaining my web sites as the server is running Linux. Linux is fine server software, but it is not ready for the end use.
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Just because you can't get it running doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're not good. ^^
Linux isn't supposed to be a rival to OSX or WinXP/Vista. It is an alternative. If you want a fully functioning free operating system with free office software, free graphics programs, free *most software types* then linux is a good choice.
I don't know how you can say it's not mature, *nix has been around since 69, system V since 83, linux since 91. It has plenty of history to it. I was able to set it up fine when I was 12. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but it didn't sound like he had a clue.
Anyway if anyone's curious. I always liked Slackware, it's the most "unixy" and doesn't have that many features. Remember, you only have to download the dependencies and features you want. You can make your own distribution if you want, not hard to do. I liked gentoo and ubuntu since handling the dependencies is easier. I'm also a big fan of OpenBSD since I used to be into the security scene when i was younger. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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[quote="sargx"]
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Linux isn't supposed to be a rival to OSX or WinXP/Vista. It is an alternative. If you want a fully functioning free operating system with free office software, free graphics programs, free *most software types* then linux is a good choice.
I don't know how you can say it's not mature, *nix has been around since 69, system V since 83, linux since 91. It has plenty of history to it. I was able to set it up fine when I was 12. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but it didn't sound like he had a clue.
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Its halfware. Half-baked, half-functional, half-hearted and half-supported.
Go Mac. Doesn't have all the pimply angst of *.nix, but it sure is different...and you do have to grow up sometime.
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| sargx wrote: |
| Just because you can't get it running doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're not good. ^^ |
No that means it's not good - windows installs out of the box and just works. Linux does not - both flavors that I've tried
| sargx wrote: |
| Linux isn't supposed to be a rival to OSX or WinXP/Vista. It is an alternative. If you want a fully functioning free operating system with free office software, free graphics programs, free *most software types* then linux is a good choice. |
But most fanboys rave about it like it is supposed to rival windows. All the free programs you mentioned are available for windows users as well so there is nothing preventing people from using them instead of commercial versions available.
| sargx wrote: |
| I don't know how you can say it's not mature, *nix has been around since 69, system V since 83, linux since 91. It has plenty of history to it. I was able to set it up fine when I was 12. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but it didn't sound like he had a clue. |
I know plenty of adults who are immature and linux is not mature enough to be a serious alternative. It doesn't "just" work strait out of the install, but windows does (and presumably Mac o/s).
The average computer user (and I'm a little more advanced than the average) just wants to their computer to work without having to deal with arcane commands and hunting down work arounds via the net. It's like buying a car, as long as it drives and does what you want the average car owner is happy. If they constantly had to look under the hood and make adjustments to get their car to work they would look elsewhere.
linux is for enthusiasts and anti-establishment flag waving fringe computer users.
I installed linux yesterday and after 2 hours I still couldn't access the net. then this morning I booted into it again to give it another shot and I was asked for my login/password when I wasn't previously. I submitted it, got taken to the desktop to promptly be returned to the login screen. This happened repeatedly over several reboots including the option to go to the equivalent of safe mode.
At that point I gave up - I had already spent enough time to learn that it wasn't worth the effort. To add insult to injury when I deleted the partitions and rebooted grub loader some how hosed my system and wouldn't let me into any o/s requiring me to waste even more time reinstalling a proven o/s that just works - windows XP.
I may try linux again in a few years, but probably not. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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1. Why the heck aren't you running live CDs? No screwing around with grub stuff, completely "risk-free" way to try it.
2. If you do run live CDs you can try like 10 versions in a day. I did 6 quite easily. Even if the first one worked why would you not want to see what else is out there? It's fun!
3. Just because you have to do more things manually doesn't mean its a crap system. It's actually superior to windows in many ways.
And I'm not even a linux fanboy, technically. Not running it full time yet anyway. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| 1. Why the heck aren't you running live CDs? No screwing around with grub stuff, completely "risk-free" way to try it. |
I did run ubuntu live - worked fine, but wouldn't install on my computer. skipped the live CD for suse and it installed but no internet
| JustJohn wrote: |
| 2. If you do run live CDs you can try like 10 versions in a day. I did 6 quite easily. Even if the first one worked why would you not want to see what else is out there? It's fun! |
time
it's not fun to keep testing - I want it to work.
| JustJohn wrote: |
| 3. Just because you have to do more things manually doesn't mean its a crap system. It's actually superior to windows in many ways. |
Actually for the average user it does mean it is crap. |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Why on earth would anyone want to try 10 different OSs in one day? OSs are supposed to run the computer and allow you to run the programs that actually do something. They should be there, but not affect the use or cause problems.
I don't want to waste a bunch of time figuring out "ooohhh, I like that button on this distro, but that button on that distro." That's a waste.
I want an OS that allows me to do what I want, when I want, with as few problems as possible. For now, linux doesn't sound like a good plan.
KPRROK |
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sargx
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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MacOS X is based off Free BSD anyway. The reason windows installs out of the box, is because it's huge bloated software, how many gigs does vista take up?. You can install linux off a floppy disc.
(Reference to Qnx live install disc, had a kernel, gui, and web browser on a 3.5" floppy). |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, well if you don't have time you're right, don't bother with linux. You will need time to check out some different distros and learn how everything works. Unless you got bad luck of the draw on your hardware it shouldn't take more than an afternoon to run a few live CDs and see what you like and what works though.
And again, just because the average user is inept doesn't mean that the system is crap. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| And again, just because the average user is inept doesn't mean that the system is crap. |
yes it does. An o/s should allow the average use do what they want without having to consult a manual or learn arcane terminology and run things via command prompts. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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At the moment linux is meant to be installed by someone with a head on their shoulders. Once it's running any idiot can do it. (Excepting power user distros of course)
And I see the point your trying to make, but logically your actual argument is invalid. It's the same as saying a bike is bad because someone who doesn't know how to ride a bike tried to use it. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
At the moment linux is meant to be installed by someone with a head on their shoulders. Once it's running any idiot can do it. (Excepting power user distros of course)
And I see the point your trying to make, but logically your actual argument is invalid. It's the same as saying a bike is bad because someone who doesn't know how to ride a bike tried to use it. |
My point is that linux will continue to remain a fringe o/s until it "just" works. until that day arrives, it will never be mainstream. |
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