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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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regicide:  So now BUCKLEY might have had his hand in assassinating JFK!!!!!
Hell, I was alive in '63: why not add my name to the list of suspects!!!? |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely no evidence, Wannago?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/24/lou-dobbs-e-machines-threatening-democracy/
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| The reality is, because no one thinks � we�re focusing on this, the issue is that these machines are not reliable to the degree they should be and with a paper trail, verified paper system. There is � at least you�re protecting the integrity of the system so you have a recount. People must understand, you can�t have a recount without that. |
From '06:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4266
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Ohio Election Workers Sentenced to 18 Months for Rigging 2004 Presidential Recount
Two county election workers were sentenced Tuesday to 18 months in prison for rigging a recount of 2004 presidential election ballots so they could avoid a longer, detailed review.
Jacqueline Maiden, 60, a Cuyahoga County election coordinator who was the board's third-highest ranking employee, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer, 40, each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee. |
From '04:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1118-22.htm
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Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, the erstwhile investigator of electronic voting machines, along with people from Florida Fair Elections, showed up at Florida's Volusia County Elections Office on the afternoon of Tuesday, November 16, 2004, and asked to see, under a public records request, each of the poll tapes for the 100+ optical scanners in the precincts in that county. The elections workers - having been notified in advance of her request - handed her a set of printouts, oddly dated November 15 and lacking signatures.
Bev pointed out that the printouts given her were not the original poll tapes and had no signatures, and thus were not what she'd requested. Obligingly, they told her that the originals were held in another location, the Elections Office's Warehouse, and that since it was the end of the day they should meet Bev the following morning to show them to her.
Bev showed up bright and early the morning of Wednesday the 17th - well before the scheduled meeting - and discovered three of the elections officials in the Elections Warehouse standing over a table covered with what looked like poll tapes. When they saw Bev and her friends, Bev told me in a telephone interview less than an hour later, "They immediately shoved us out and slammed the door."
In a way, that was a blessing, because it led to the stinking evidence.
"On the porch was a garbage bag," Bev said, "and so I looked in it and, and lo and behold, there were public record tapes."
Thrown away. Discarded. Waiting to be hauled off. |
Do you have any other illusions that I can shatter for you today? How about Health Care? How about the "US is #1"? |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
regicide: So now BUCKLEY might have had his hand in assassinating JFK!!!!!
Hell, I was alive in '63: why not add my name to the list of suspects!!!? |
Are you CIA? Buckley knew.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6309
John Simkin wrote:
It is interesting that some NeoCons like William Buckley and Francis Fukuyama are now speaking out against the policies of George Bush. However, I am not convinced by their arguments. They were strongly in favour of the invasion of Iraq. Why were they unaware that this would end in disaster? Anyone with any knowledge of the history of Iraq were aware that it was impossible to go into that country and establish a democracy. As critics pointed out at the time, democracy would only highlight the deep divisions that existed between the various religious and racial groups in Iraq.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2862&st=0&start=0
Last edited by regicide on Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: |
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That's it? A blog and two left-wing whacko websites? Tell you what, you give me two (2) mainstream media sites that say the elections were definitely rigged, then I'll quit calling you a left-wing....well.....liar.
BTW, commondreams.org is NOT a mainstream site. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: |
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The blog post points to an AP article. AND the blogger involved is an voting rights expert who regularly appears on mainstream media outlets.
Oh wait, I thought you conservative boneheads were all about how the "liberal media" was biased against conservatives? So why would you trust anything the MSM has to say? So if it's not on Limblaugh, it's not the truth?
Or do you ONLY take your talking points from Fuhrer Bush?
*back on topic*
Apparently, the now-deceased Buckley came to realize how far the conservative "bar" moved away from him.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=buckley
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"Aren't you embarrassed by the absence of these weapons?" Buckley snaps at Podhoretz. He has just explained that he supported the war reluctantly, because Dick Cheney convinced him that Saddam Hussein had WMD primed to be fired. "No," Podhoretz replies. "As I say, they were shipped to Syria. During Gulf War One, the entire Iraqi air force was hidden in the deserts in Iran." He says he is "heartbroken" by this "rise of defeatism on the right." He adds, apropos of nothing, "There was nobody better than Don Rumsfeld. This defeatist talk only contributes to the impression we are losing, when I think we are winning."
The audience cheers Podhoretz. The nuanced doubts of Bill Buckley leave them confused. Doesn't he sound like the liberal media? Later, over dinner, a tablemate from Denver calls Buckley "a coward." His wife nods and says, "Buckley's an old man," tapping her head with her finger to suggest dementia. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| agentX wrote: |
The blog post points to an AP article. AND the blogger involved is an voting rights expert who regularly appears on mainstream media outlets.
Oh wait, I thought you conservative boneheads were all about how the "liberal media" was biased against conservatives? So why would you trust anything the MSM has to say? So if it's not on Limblaugh, it's not the truth?
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Just what I thought. Can't rise to the challenge and continues screeching about Limbaugh (not media but entertainer). You are a left-wing liar.
Typical lefty spewage. NEXT |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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"Not media but entertainer."
What do you think the media is? C-SPAN? Anything containing opinion is not media? Nice try.
Also, he only uses that "entertainer" line when somebody calls him on his b.s., as if to deflect attention away from the fact that his ideology is both what makes him such a scumbag and so popular among dumbass Americans. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
"Not media but entertainer."
What do you think the media is? C-SPAN? Anything containing opinion is not media? Nice try.
Also, he only uses that "entertainer" line when somebody calls him on his b.s., as if to deflect attention away from the fact that his ideology is both what makes him such a scumbag and so popular among dumbass Americans. |
Limbaugh doesn't investigate and report news, he comments (in his own crappy style) on news already reported. He definitely puts his own spin on things which makes him a commentator, not a reporter.
Seriously, were you home-schooled or something? |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| So why didn't Buckley march in lockstep with Bush on invading Iraq? |
He did. Buckley was pro-Iraq War in 2002/2003. He didn't start criticizing Bush until almost a year after the invasion.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Buckley was wrong about segregation but so were most White intellectuals of the day and let's not forget that the White politicians in the South were mostly Democrats. Did he retain or reform his views on civil rights as time went on? Can you address that point? People have been known to modify their views, even change dramatically (look at David Horowitz, for example). Hell, even Henry Giroux has distanced himself from that neo-Marxist rant master Peter McLaren at UCLA. And Bill Ayers, formerly of the Weathermen and a fugitive from justice is now a professor in Chicago. |
You are correct, I can at least give Buckley credit for modifying his views on race. He also did a fair amount to purge the conservative movement of explicit racists. None of that makes his columns of the 1950s any less odious, however.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Labeling Vietnam a moral outrage through and through is just plain hyperbole. Most American strategic planning was well-intended but naive in underestimating for too long the VietCong and overestimating for too long the SVA. The JCS and McNamara bungled their way along, often on bad intelligence, to be sure. Agent Orange was often misapplied and carpet bombing was morally suspect (but then the same could be said of Allied raids on Germany during the Second World War, I suppose). |
My problem with Vietnam is not how it was attempted, but that it was attempted at all. It was a war of choice and occupation that we had no business involving ourselves in. Like Iraq, the entire rationale for the war was spurious; much of it deliberately so. Vietnam was designed to benefit the military-industrial complex. The rest was 99% fig leaf.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| But what moral outrage do you have for Diem's successors--the NVA--who slaughtered or imprisoned millions and disrupted the entire economy? |
Why is it that anyone who criticizes America is immediately challenged to criticize other countries as well? This is an utter non sequitir, but very well, yes, I strongly criticize and condemn all murderous, totalitarian regimes. Happy? Can we go on?
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| And if you think that America is not experiencing any cultural decay, it's only because you relish the prospect of weakened religion and hedonism. But are you unconcerned about the divorce rate, the disintegration of families, dysfunction in the Black community on a scale never seen before, not to mention the sex-hyped, sexist rap and hip-hop subculture or the amoralism of most Hollywood directors? Do you take comfort in knowing that indoctrination has replaced education in far too many college classrooms, making a mockery of democratic inquiry? |
I relish the prospect of weakening organized religion, by all means, but I wonder why you think those other things are tied to that. (One word: Norway.) On the entertainment front, this is where the misdiagnosis comes in. Every generation thinks the next is descending into shameless vice and amorality. This has been the case as far back as we have recorded history. It's an endlessly silly cognitive illusion. There are plenty of real problems to worry about; let Elvis or 2 Live Crew or Tupac or Amy Winehouse do whatever the hell they want. It's a free country.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| You're still not king but you'd like to be the leader of the masses, eh? |
Nope. My moniker is partly an allusion to Tom Paine ("the world will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"), but mostly it's a Lord of the Rings reference -- in a series of joke diaries written from the perspective of Aragorn, the author ended each one with the phrase "Still not king." I look a bit like Viggo Mortensen, if you squint, and my wife makes award-winning LOTR costumes which I always end up modeling. (The Aragorn ones, that is. I don't think I'd look right in an Arwen gown.) |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote:
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| Buckley nurtured all sorts of conservatives, including Barry Goldwater and other libertarians. |
Which should earn him a place in either the 8th or 9th Circle of Hell.
Stevie misidentified in his usual superficial way:
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| let's not forget that the White politicians in the South were mostly Democrats. |
Let's not forget that most Southern Democrats of the 40's and 50's were Dixiecrats, conservatives who could not bring themselves to join Lincoln's party. They now sit very comfortably on the Republican side of the aisle.
Regi ironically stated:
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| What? The guy makes a stupid mistake and you defend him? I have got to get you on my team! |
 Keep the humor coming, Regi. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
"Not media but entertainer."
What do you think the media is? C-SPAN? Anything containing opinion is not media? Nice try.
Also, he only uses that "entertainer" line when somebody calls him on his b.s., as if to deflect attention away from the fact that his ideology is both what makes him such a scumbag and so popular among dumbass Americans. |
Limbaugh doesn't investigate and report news, he comments (in his own crappy style) on news already reported. He definitely puts his own spin on things which makes him a commentator, not a reporter.
Seriously, were you home-schooled or something? |
Commentators are not part of the media? Really? What is your first language? |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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One only has to read his letters to understand the real Buckley. It is true that in public he usually played the role of the polite gentleman. However, sometimes, the mask slipped and the real Buckley was revealed. For example, this is from the Guardian's obituary yesterday:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/28/usa.television
Buckley could be sarcastic and cruel in defence of his beliefs. His gladiatorial contests on air reached a climax in an infamous row with Gore Vidal in 1968. When Vidal persisted in suggesting that Buckley's views made him something close to a fascist, Buckley burst out: "Now, listen, you queer. Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the face!" Buckley was ashamed of himself for losing control, and developed a gentler style.
He loved to shock those he regarded as wimpish liberals, but it was important to him to present himself as a gentleman. He was a man of culture, a gifted writer and brilliant debater, and a sincere Catholic. He was also an accomplished pianist, and from 1976 onwards wrote a series of popular novels about CIA agent Blackford Oakes. In all, he produced more than 40 books and 5,600 of his biweekly newspaper columns, On the Right. A keen sailor, Buckley made a number of voyages, across the Atlantic and the Pacific, in large yachts loaded with friends, vintage wine, hundreds of hours of taped Mozart and Motown, word processors (for captain and crew to write their books on) and a piano for the captain's Bach.
At the same time, he freely expressed views most people would regard as oafish. For a long time he approved of racial segregation, though later he seems to have come to understand that this would conflict with his stylish image. He continued to write with gross insensitivity about Africans. He was openly homophobic, and when Aids first appeared, he suggested that gay men should be tattooed on the buttocks. As a young man, when asked about his beliefs, he replied: "I have God and my father, and that's all I need." |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Regicide, you are indeed trying. First you fling at us this:
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| According to Buckley, he left the CIA after a few months. In my opinion he never really left the CIA. Instead, it was decided that he would be more useful to the agency as an "independent" journalist. In other words, he was to become a key figure in Operation Mockingbird. |
which makes me laugh and cringe at the same time. Then you lay this on us a webpage later:
| Quote: |
| One only has to read his letters to understand the real Buckley. It is true that in public he usually played the role of the polite gentleman. However, sometimes, the mask slipped and the real Buckley was revealed. For example, this is from the Guardian's obituary yesterday...At the same time, he freely expressed views most people would regard as oafish. For a long time he approved of racial segregation, though later he seems to have come to understand that this would conflict with his stylish image. He continued to write with gross insensitivity about Africans. He was openly homophobic, and when Aids first appeared, he suggested that gay men should be tattooed on the buttocks. As a young man, when asked about his beliefs, he replied: "I have God and my father, and that's all I need." |
which is eminently articulate and thought-provoking.
You're a real piece of work, but I suppose you'd say the same of me.
Regardless, your second post deserves a carefully considered response.
I do not excuse Buckley for his early racism, especially given the caliber of his formal education, nor do I condone his homophobia, which was pedestrian for a man who ascribed to aristocractic deceny. But by the same token I do believe people can change and that it's categorically unfair to insist that his reformed stance on segregation was merely for show. Many so-called liberals were also late to the table of diversity, although this is seldom noted in the mainstream media.
I would be curious to know why he made no mention of his mother in his oft-repeated quote. Any guesses?
All in all, Buckley was a man of contradictions but also tremendous self-will. So too are all influential people. But to reiterate, blaming him for the shortcomings of every neo-con who has come down the pike is just plain unfair--something stillnotking cannot see because of his Far Left blinders. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Uh, regicide, I take back the part about being articulate as I now see you're either quoting or lifting from The Guardian obituary. Next time, put the excerpt in quotes for us, fella.
And btw, The Guardian is very leftwing, so naturally it will dwell on the negative aspects of Buckley's legacy.
That Buckley disapproved of his verbal lashing of Vidal only serves to demonstrate his genuine concern for being a gentleman.
That Vidal didn't regret his fascist insult and lashed out in a similar manner about Bush in a CNN International interview last year on "Talk Asia" in Hong Kong only serves to demonstrate that he isn't much of a gentleman, at least in public. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| agentX wrote: |
The blog post points to an AP article. AND the blogger involved is an voting rights expert who regularly appears on mainstream media outlets.
Oh wait, I thought you conservative boneheads were all about how the "liberal media" was biased against conservatives? So why would you trust anything the MSM has to say? So if it's not on Limblaugh, it's not the truth?
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Just what I thought. Can't rise to the challenge and continues screeching about Limbaugh (not media but entertainer). You are a left-wing liar.
Typical lefty spewage. NEXT |
I did rise to the challenge. You, like Buckley was until recently, like Bush has always been, like John McCain wants to be, are so covered up to your hairline in right wing talking points that you wouldn't know the truth even if it crawled out of your ass and slapped you in the face. That's why you're running around here trying to "defend America" against those that have a legit beef against it.
You're just a crybaby throwing a tantrum, much like this guy.
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