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NEWBIE's READ THIS!!!
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Francis-Pax



Joined: 20 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: NEWBIE's READ THIS!!! Reply with quote

I realize that this message is going to get a lot of negative feedback, but I don't care.

DAVE'S ESL CAFE MESSAGE BOARDS ARE NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GET RELIABLE INFORMATION. THERE IS SOME TRUTH IN THESE THREADS, BUT A LOT OF WHAT YOU READ HERE IS EXTREMELY BIASED AND NEGATIVE.
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yoonism



Joined: 22 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so... whats the alternative site for "reliable" info?
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Sapa



Joined: 05 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people can realise that this forum is mostly populated by miserable bastards. Still has loads of good info in it though.
I usually find that you should stop reading a thread once it gets past a page or two. Usually good info in the first few posts, then it just turns into whining and bitching at each other.
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Francis-Pax



Joined: 20 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapa wrote:
I think people can realise that this forum is mostly populated by miserable bastards. Still has loads of good info in it though.
I usually find that you should stop reading a thread once it gets past a page or two. Usually good info in the first few posts, then it just turns into whining and bitching at each other.



I am not saying that everything on here is worthless; however, I am just putting out a warning for the newbie who might buy 90% of the BS that is on here.

It's been awhile since I have checked out Dave's and after reading through several threads I remembered why I stayed away.


Last edited by Francis-Pax on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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flint



Joined: 11 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francis-Pax wrote:


I am not say


Good English for a Korean. Smile
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Francis-Pax



Joined: 20 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flint wrote:
Francis-Pax wrote:


I am not say


Good English for a Korean. Smile


Typo. Big deal.
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Ukon



Joined: 29 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francis maybe you can help me out here then:

Since I have alot of time on my hands, I've been reading everything I can about living in korea...both negative and good before heading out.

What I don't get is the huge divide in opinion....very little middle ground...Extreme hate or preference for anywhere else.....or they like it or love it. I figure there is some unaccounted for major variable here because many accounts of living in Korea contradicts each other.

The #1 reason is of course...screwy work conditions, bad bosses, etc. which taints everything.... not to mention various annoying korean tendancies(shoving, spitting, etc.)

Aside from that I get the impression:

Location: Some like rural or city...some hate rural over city....I'm guessing some areas are more significantly more rude and/or racists than others.

People:related to location, others mention great politeness and others act like koreans are the rudest people on earth. Also misintepretation of rude behavior is my guess in some cases, becuase people seem to have wide experiences....They can't be both extremely rude and polite....

Germaphobes
: They probaly hate Korea obviously.

Bad dressing and/or extremely ugly people
: I can't verify this, but if Koreans care about looks and dress as much everyone says, perhaps they're more biased against these faults in foreigners? This might explain why some claim to have such huge differences in people experience....*

*Gender: with the exception of those screwed by bosses & work, the majority of females who talk about Korea seem to be much more positive than the men(based on what I've read). Women dress better than men usually....perhaps Koreans are more welcoming and open with foreign females?

Faults within foreigners: Alot of people mention the people coming to Korea aren't exactly the cream the crop, come exclusively for cash, or at worst on the run or failures back home. Do the people who complain a lot(aside from job related issues) strike you as normal, well-adjusted people?

Entitlement/high expectation foreigners: Real Teachers who actually expect to do a serious job. Loser guys who think being white in an Asian country means *beep* galore and instant popularity. Close minded folks who figure Koreans should act like them or asian stereotypes back home. White burden folks who scream bloody murder at every injustice.

Isolated location: Related to Rural....no foreigners nearby or the local expat scene sucks....

Spoiled by other places(japan, thailand, china, etc.): Fairly explanatory.
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Hank the Iconoclast



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ukon, wait until you come to Korea before you start assigning categories to the posters here.
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Easter Clark



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ukon wrote:

People:related to location, others mention great politeness and others act like koreans are the rudest people on earth. Also misintepretation of rude behavior is my guess in some cases, becuase people seem to have wide experiences....They can't be both extremely rude and polite....


I think this is fairly common all over the world--people in the cities are much "ruder" than people in the countryside. People in the countryside are more polite than people in the city, but there is a higher degree of racism (a by-product of ignorance) in the countryside.

Ukon wrote:
perhaps Koreans are more welcoming and open with foreign females?


Korea is a male-dominated society, and the foreign women I have known here seemed to be less happy than the men I've known. That said, I think how one is treated has more to do with your attitude toward Koreans than your gender (even though being male will give you a leg up in the beginning).

Ukon wrote:

Do the people who complain a lot(aside from job related issues) strike you as normal, well-adjusted people?


If their complaints are legitimate, sure. I think a lot of folks who complain here are on their first "real" job after university and are still having to learn how to get along with coworkers. This can be difficult in itself, putting aside the fact that this is a completely different culture. So maybe this is "normal" for fresh-out-of-university people, but if this is your second or third (especially Asian) country to work in, you've done your homework in your job search, and you make a genuine effort to get along with your coworkers, there is actually very little to complain about.

Ukon wrote:

Spoiled by other places(japan, thailand, china, etc.): Fairly explanatory.


In my experience, China was a lot more challenging to work and live in than Korea, due to a much worse environment, overpopulation (yes, more so than Korea!),poor public transportation, an even higher likelihood of food poisoning, and more demanding students.

*Oh, and Ukon, I'll add that you really seem to have your finger on the pulse of this board!
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Ukon



Joined: 29 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easter Clark wrote:
Ukon wrote:

People:related to location, others mention great politeness and others act like koreans are the rudest people on earth. Also misintepretation of rude behavior is my guess in some cases, becuase people seem to have wide experiences....They can't be both extremely rude and polite....


I think this is fairly common all over the world--people in the cities are much "ruder" than people in the countryside. People in the countryside are more polite than people in the city, but there is a higher degree of racism (a by-product of ignorance) in the countryside.

Ukon wrote:
perhaps Koreans are more welcoming and open with foreign females?


Korea is a male-dominated society, and the foreign

women I have known here seemed to be less happy than the men I've known. That said, I think how one is treated has more to do with your attitude toward Koreans than your gender (even though being male will give you a leg up in the beginning).

Ukon wrote:

Do the people who complain a lot(aside from job related issues) strike you as normal, well-adjusted people?


If their complaints are legitimate, sure. I think a lot of folks who complain here are on their first "real" job after university and are still having to learn how to get along with coworkers. This can be difficult in itself, putting aside the fact that this is a completely different culture. So maybe this is "normal" for fresh-out-of-university people, but if this is your second or third (especially Asian) country to work in, you've done your homework in your job search, and you make a genuine effort to get along with your coworkers, there is actually very little to complain about.

Ukon wrote:

Spoiled by other places(japan, thailand, china, etc.): Fairly explanatory.


In my experience, China was a lot more challenging to work and live in than Korea, due to a much worse environment, overpopulation (yes, more so than Korea!),poor public transportation, an even higher likelihood of food poisoning, and more demanding students.

*Oh, and Ukon, I'll add that you really seem to have your finger on the pulse of this board!


Thanks! Thats helps alot.


Hank the Iconoclast wrote:
Ukon, wait until you come to Korea before you start assigning categories to the posters here.


I took some educated guesses based off what I've read and the nature of the complaints.....I didn't assign anyone to those catogories...infact, many of them come from what other Dave's poster said OTHER foreigners were like here....
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twg



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: NEWBIE's READ THIS!!! Reply with quote

Francis-Pax wrote:
THERE IS SOME TRUTH IN THESE THREADS, BUT A LOT OF WHAT YOU READ HERE IS EXTREMELY BIASED AND NEGATIVE.

Let me guess... new Korean girlfriend or still in the honeymoon phase.

You are reading negative opinions because a lot of the users here have had negative experiences. As for bias? Against bad Korean people maybe, but that's the way it should be.

It is good to have this because it lets FOTBs know that 1) You should never believe the hype, and 2) If things do go pear shaped for you, there will be someone here who will have had similar experiences and could tell you how you should or shouldn't deal with it.

But when all is said and done, it's still just a message board on the internet. You pick and choose the information you need and apply it if it's good, and ignore the rest like any sane person.


Ukon wrote:
They can't be both extremely rude and polite....

You got a reason why they can't be both?
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please read my response in this thread:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1558158#1558158
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: NEWBIE's READ THIS!!! Reply with quote

Francis-Pax wrote:
I realize that this message is going to get a lot of negative feedback, but I don't care.

THE INTERNET IS NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GET RELIABLE INFORMATION. THERE IS SOME TRUTH IN THIS PLACE, BUT A LOT OF WHAT YOU READ HERE IS EXTREMELY BIASED AND NEGATIVE.


FTFY
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The Hammer



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapa wrote:
I think people can realise that this forum is mostly populated by miserable bastards.


2008 MISERABLE BASTARD POLL



Here are the results from the latest Dave's ESL Cafe poll.
Posters were asked to answer the following question:

Are you a miserable bastard?
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marlow



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: NEWBIE's READ THIS!!! Reply with quote

Francis-Pax wrote:
DAVE'S ESL CAFE MESSAGE BOARDS ARE NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GET RELIABLE INFORMATION. THERE IS SOME TRUTH IN THESE THREADS, BUT A LOT OF WHAT YOU READ HERE IS EXTREMELY BIASED AND NEGATIVE.


I agree. See above.
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