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*wanderlust*
Joined: 06 May 2007
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 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Justin, the problem with creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine was because the British had promised the Arabs their freedom, and that is why they revolted against the Turks. The British also promised the Assyrian Christians in Iraq a homeland, and the Assyrians saved the British from being slaughtered by Arabs in Iraq. However, they did not get a homeland. It is easy to pontificate and say the Arabs or Palestinians are barbarous, but consider what the Spaniards did in South America and Spain, the British in Ireland and India, Palestine etc....
What of the Belgians in the Congo?
The Europeans are not collectively responsible for the holocaust.
What do the Irish have do with it, really? What about the Greeks?
It shouldn't be about promoting a homeland for Israelis and depriving Palestinians born there who are related to them a homeland.
What about promoting mutual justice rather than killing on both sides?
Why can't there be a win-win situation as people like Shlomo Ben Ami believe? Everyone should promote what is just for the two sides and will promote stability and peace and they should combat any fanatacism from both sides. That is our duty. Anything else plays into sectarian politics. |
Well said. |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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The British gave half of Palestine to the Jews and half to the Arabs. The British also gave Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen to the Arabs. (The French held Syria until they gave it to the Syrian Arabs afterward.)
The Arabs were dissatisfied with this arrangemant and fought a few wars against Israel. Israel has given back a lot of the land they won in those wars, hoping the warfare would cease. It has not stopped, so in hindsight perhaps the Jews should have kept all the land they won in those wars. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Justin, the problem with creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine was because the British had promised the Arabs their freedom, and that is why they revolted against the Turks. The British also promised the Assyrian Christians in Iraq a homeland, and the Assyrians saved the British from being slaughtered by Arabs in Iraq. However, they did not get a homeland. |
It�s relevant. However, here�s what Muslims� celestial dictator has to say about Jews in their infallible book:
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Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Only those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam will be rewarded with heaven. 2:62
Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66
Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24
Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51
Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52
For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1
Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.5:51
Jews and Christians are losers. 5:53
Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 5:57
Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59
Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests. 5:63
Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews. 5:64
The Jews rejected and killed Allah's prophets, since "they were wilfully blind and deaf." 5:70-71
Allah turns Jews into apes! 7:166 |
And much, much, much more.
| Adventurer wrote: |
It is easy to pontificate and say (A)the Arabs or Palestinians are barbarous, but consider what (B)the Spaniards did in South America and Spain, the British in Ireland and India, Palestine etc....
What of the Belgians in the Congo? |
B does not refute A. It introduces another topic and in logic we call it a red herring. I refuse to answer your question, unfortunately, because I don�t want the conversation to change direction and sh-ift my attention from Islamic barbarism to European barbarism.
| Adventurer wrote: |
The Europeans are not collectively responsible for the holocaust.
What do the Irish have do with it, really? What about the Greeks? |
The Irish adopted a position of neutrality towards genocidal Germany. Ergo, they have responsibility to support a strong Israeli state and those who do not, per se, are offensively indecent.
Obviously all of Europe collectively doesn�t have any responsibility, but profoundly Christian states like Britain (an aggressively Protestant state), Germany (long history of violent anti-Semitism), Ireland (staunchly Catholic and neutral over Hitler), all Catholic states since they directly allied with fascism (Italy, Spain, Hungary, Austria/Bavaria) and the United States (a melting pot of chiefly, in order, German, Irish, English peoples) owe the Jews a state in an area entirely of their choice. I can think of no better place than the area from whence they originate and which is central to their religion.
| Adventurer wrote: |
It shouldn't be about promoting a homeland for Israelis and depriving Palestinians born there who are related to them a homeland.
What about promoting mutual justice rather than killing on both sides?
Why can't there be a win-win situation as people like Shlomo Ben Ami believe? Everyone should promote what is just for the two sides and will promote stability and peace and they should combat any fanatacism from both sides. That is our duty. Anything else plays into sectarian politics. |
I no longer support the two-state solution at all. I used to, but in recent years I�ve experienced a profound, 180 degree reversal on almost everything. 5 years ago, I was with the Blairs and the Clintons on anything except religion, since I was agnostic. I supported the Palestinians and regarded Israel as a parasitic state � still do a little, since I�m a raving atheist and secular nationalist. Get a load of this � I even supported toleration for Islam and encouraged Muslim immigration. Since, I drifted wildly Right. I will not support any single Muslim cause on the planet � nothing. I�ve been driven to this position by nobody but Muslims and what I consider to be the majority Muslim position on life�s questions, since nobody has ever given me reason to believe Allah sent Gabriel to instruct Muhammad and the book is thus infallible is not the majority position. I�m not terribly keen on Jewish settlers and their crimes nor of their ghastly religion, but that�s the worst I can say.
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
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Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| *wanderlust* wrote: |
I always find this argument interesting. I do concede that jews have faced a history of prosecution, we all know the history of the haulocast as well as the other instances another poster brought to light. However, at what point does being the victim of prosecution and fascism therefore give the victim the right to be the aggressor?
I don't believe anyone disputes that Jews have the right to an independant state, however the on going conflict results (we're talking about the root here) from the history of the land of the current independant state not so much that basic idea. I personally do not support the actions of the Palestinian or the Israeli governments, however I think it's important to take a step back and make an attempt not to be ethnocentric.
We can blame Palastinians for electing a "terroist government" and say therefore they get their dues, or we can ask ourselves if our people suffered daily human rights abuses, suppression and occupation by the most powerful country (militarily) in the region backed by the most powerful (depending on who you ask) country militarily in the world how would you respond? ). |
Maybe if they would stop firing rockets into Israel, this "suppression" would stop. As for occupation, I believe Israel LEFT and is no longer in the Gaza Strip. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
And every time I stop believing that you are a sock of IGTG you go and post something like this. Seriously just stop the anti-semitic rubbish. Doesn't the constant quest for a conspiracy theory ever get old? |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
And every time I stop believing that you are a sock of IGTG you go and post something like this. Seriously just stop the anti-semitic rubbish. Doesn't the constant quest for a conspiracy theory ever get old? |
To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled by funders with interests would be crazy. Things just aren't that simple that issues like this are unrelated.
As for being a sock. Hehe! If someone can post emphatically in North American speak and then have a sock who writes perfectly in British speak, that would really be something and probably a little strenuous. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
And every time I stop believing that you are a sock of IGTG you go and post something like this. Seriously just stop the anti-semitic rubbish. Doesn't the constant quest for a conspiracy theory ever get old? |
To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled by funders with interests would be crazy. Things just aren't that simple that issues like this are unrelated.
s. |
"To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled...."
First off Hillary is not the government. Secondly that is NOT what you said in the post above. You posted that Jewish people control American SOCIETY...which is quite a bit different from controlling the government and even more so from controlling potential candidates.
As for Hillary's comments they can be easily explained in this way.
Israel is a solid ally of the U.S. and provides a pair of eyes in a volatile region of the world where the U.S has strategic interests. If you think she is being paid off by Jewish bankers prehaps you should look more closely into her history. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
And every time I stop believing that you are a sock of IGTG you go and post something like this. Seriously just stop the anti-semitic rubbish. Doesn't the constant quest for a conspiracy theory ever get old? |
To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled by funders with interests would be crazy. Things just aren't that simple that issues like this are unrelated.
s. |
"To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled...."
First off Hillary is not the government. Secondly that is NOT what you said in the post above. You posted that Jewish people control American SOCIETY...which is quite a bit different from controlling the government and even more so from controlling potential candidates.
As for Hillary's comments they can be easily explained in this way.
Israel is a solid ally of the U.S. and provides a pair of eyes in a volatile region of the world where the U.S has strategic interests. If you think she is being paid off by Jewish bankers prehaps you should look more closely into her history. |
I didn't say she was the government, she is a potential candidate. All politicians will be swayed by financial backing. The hunger to get into power knows no means. Why do you think all these 'undeclared donations' seem to be such a problem when they crop up in England and America? Bush was funded by oil companies, they saw him as a good bet to get in, if slightly illegal. For his 'reign' anything environmental is thrown off the bill because it would not serve their purpose. But that's by the by.
Jewish backing in America accounts for a large amount for candidates. All those quotes from Hilary highlight a devotion to a nation that "Israel is standing for American values" What are those values exactly? I'm sure America seems to be devoid of values when it comes to International Relations. How the Government acts both regionally and globally has a massive impact on American Society. Does it not? Their backing of her, as with any big 'donors', are self serving. From the original OP, anything that may have negative connotations for groups is suppressed from the news. Which in turn affects society. Why do you think they don't show coffins coming back from Iraq? It's not beneficial for the government or maybe because nobody's died in the Iraq war.
In America money talks. If you can steer policy then you can serve/save yourself. A 'state' that is constantly under threat could use this to their advantage. Israel is in just such a position. Nice to have a powerful ally in America. |
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BreakfastInBed
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian Non-Violence Movement and, wait, oh yeah, there isn't one. What gives? American Christians had King, Indian Hindus had Gandhi, where is the Islamic version? Gonna blow yourself up in a car for your cause? Try stepping forward peacefully and getting knocked about for the whole world to see instead, that takes courage. Expose your enemy as a tyrant and people will notice. Change will come. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| *wanderlust* wrote: |
I always find this argument interesting. I do concede that jews have faced a history of prosecution, we all know the history of the haulocast as well as the other instances another poster brought to light. However, at what point does being the victim of prosecution and fascism therefore give the victim the right to be the aggressor?
I don't believe anyone disputes that Jews have the right to an independant state, however the on going conflict results (we're talking about the root here) from the history of the land of the current independant state not so much that basic idea. I personally do not support the actions of the Palestinian or the Israeli governments, however I think it's important to take a step back and make an attempt not to be ethnocentric.
We can blame Palastinians for electing a "terroist government" and say therefore they get their dues, or we can ask ourselves if our people suffered daily human rights abuses, suppression and occupation by the most powerful country (militarily) in the region backed by the most powerful (depending on who you ask) country militarily in the world how would you respond? ). |
Maybe if they would stop firing rockets into Israel, this "suppression" would stop. As for occupation, I believe Israel LEFT and is no longer in the Gaza Strip. |
The occupation is not ever in some ways even if Israel left Gaza. The Gazans don't control their own borders. At least, you don't have the PLO/PA and Egyptians jointly controlling it. There is no functioning airport, they cannot trade with anyone. They are essentially still occupied in some ways. Also, parts of the West Bank are still occupied.
The argument that Israel is owed by Europe because of the holocaust can be nullified by the fact that the British promised the Arabs including those in Palestine freedom long before the holocaust occured. The holocaust is a very controversial thing. I think it is one of the worst things to happen to Jews for different reasons. Why do I think it was so bad besides the fact that 6 million Jews died? Many of the Jews who died were socialists, Bundists. They were trade unionists, the miskalim. And, frankly, the Zionists didn't kill if those Jews died. Lets face it. Many on the Jewish Left accused Zionists of doing little to try to help them. Actually, some were working with Hitler before the holocaust happened and there was the Havara Agreement to help promote emigration to Israel. Of course, we cannot generalize the Zionists of today with the leadership from the beginning. They are not the same. Also, many Jews ethnic cleansed the Palestinians. Does the holocaust happening justify ethnic cleansing?
The Palestinians were not responsible for the holocaust. You could argue the Mufti supported Hitler, but that is another matter.
The tragedy that befell Jews does not justify occupation. Also, the majority of American Jews are not so preoccupied with Israel. Many of them don't necessarily agree with them. You often have these prominent Jews who act like they speak on behalf of the majority of American Jews who are actually quite progressive. When most Americans wanted to go to war in Iraq, the majority of American Jews opposed the idea. There were prominent Jews in the White House who supported it, but they were at odds with the majority of their own. Most Jews support the state of Israel existing, but it doesn't mean they sanction everything done by the government.
Do the Palestinians bring some of the problems on themselves? Yes, they do. Terrorism by Islamic Jihad and Hamas exacerbate the problems, but Bush should never have said Arafat should have elections when most people would have told him Hamas would have won the election after years of crackdowns by Israel during the fighting combined with some financial scandals in the PA. Bush helped create the current mess that exists. I do hope Olmert and Abbas can come up with a peace plan that works. I do not want Jews and Arabs to be killing each other. It is a waste of resources, lives, and doesn't solve anything no matter what Hamas or Daniel Pipes think.
As far as the politicians in the U.S., there are many factors to look at.
Many powerful Jews spend money on candidates that support them.
The most notable organization is AIPAC. Bill Clinton sparked controvery when he pardoned Marc Rich. One of his contributors, his ex-wife, donated money for his library and Israel wanted the pardon, I believe.
Also, you can't discount those Christian Evangelicals who think Israel must be supported no matter what whether human rights are abused or not, because they want Jesus to come on Earth and all the Jews are expected to convert to Christianity. Right wing Jews and Christians are basically using each other. Politicians want to be elected, and it is more profitable to support Israel and you could lose if you support the Palestinians. In the end, both sides need to be supported and steered in the direction of peace. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to re-state my position:
(a) European Christian states - or European former Christian states - owe the Jews. So too does the Vatican. They owe them a state in an area of the planet solely of Jews' choosing and at the very least, owe support for its pre-1967 existence. 2000 years of religious persecution for inter alia being deicidal subhumans plus the Holocaust (the latter motivated in large part though obviously not entirely by Hitler's Christianity)? You bet, they owe. So does the United States, since it is a melting pot of chiefly the Germans, the Irish and the English and also has a large Jewish population. Personally, I think it'd be a good idea if many of them became settlers, but never mind, they can live where they want. I've met Jews on my travels in New York many times and they're a largely decent, rational, intelligent, peaceful bunch, in clear contrast to the Muslims I've met (and taught) in UK schools and elsewhere. Though both religions are equally false, they are not equally indecent and there's no doubt whatsoever which of the two I owe my support.
(b) I refuse to support any Islamic cause. I once supported the Palestinians, now I do not. The reason is its connection to Islam. Yes, I know it's not per se an Islamic movement, but Islam is clearly connected and my aversion to Islam as a position is so powerful I want every Islamic endeavor to fail with the obvious exception of its war within itself, which the Iraq War clearly and purposefully exacerbates. I feel sorry for the Palestinians, I truly do, but I will always oppose Islamic causes, no matter how hard done by the victims. I don't support killing; I support ideas. I don't support Cromwell's killing, but I support the ideas - literacy over illiteracy, state over Rome. I don't support individual Palestinians suffering, but I support the notion that no Islamic cause must succeed, ever. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Solution = Give the whole middle East to Woody Allen |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say on the matter:
Quote:
Regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Clinton has stated that she is "an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety and security."[36]
On July 18, 2006, Clinton spoke at a pro-Israel rally in New York in front of the United Nations. She supported Israel's efforts in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict: "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones."[37]
On November 13, 2005, Clinton said that she supports the creation of the West Bank barrier, stating: "This is not against the Palestinian people. This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism."[38] She has also requested that Palestinian leaders "change all textbooks in all grades" from the current ones, which are "hate-filled, violent and radical." |
Or just simply, Jewish people who are engrained in and control American society are paying me a ton of cash. Stinks! |
And every time I stop believing that you are a sock of IGTG you go and post something like this. Seriously just stop the anti-semitic rubbish. Doesn't the constant quest for a conspiracy theory ever get old? |
To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled by funders with interests would be crazy. Things just aren't that simple that issues like this are unrelated.
s. |
"To think that governments or potential candidates aren't controlled...."
First off Hillary is not the government. Secondly that is NOT what you said in the post above. You posted that Jewish people control American SOCIETY...which is quite a bit different from controlling the government and even more so from controlling potential candidates.
As for Hillary's comments they can be easily explained in this way.
Israel is a solid ally of the U.S. and provides a pair of eyes in a volatile region of the world where the U.S has strategic interests. If you think she is being paid off by Jewish bankers prehaps you should look more closely into her history. |
I didn't say she was the government, she is a potential candidate. All politicians will be swayed by financial backing. The hunger to get into power knows no means. Why do you think all these 'undeclared donations' seem to be such a problem when they crop up in England and America? Bush was funded by oil companies, they saw him as a good bet to get in, if slightly illegal. For his 'reign' anything environmental is thrown off the bill because it would not serve their purpose. But that's by the by.
Jewish backing in America accounts for a large amount for candidates. All those quotes from Hilary highlight a devotion to a nation that "Israel is standing for American values" What are those values exactly? I'm sure America seems to be devoid of values when it comes to International Relations. How the Government acts both regionally and globally has a massive impact on American Society. Does it not? Their backing of her, as with any big 'donors', are self serving. From the original OP, anything that may have negative connotations for groups is suppressed from the news. Which in turn affects society. Why do you think they don't show coffins coming back from Iraq? It's not beneficial for the government or maybe because nobody's died in the Iraq war.
In America money talks. If you can steer policy then you can serve/save yourself. A 'state' that is constantly under threat could use this to their advantage. Israel is in just such a position. Nice to have a powerful ally in America. |
The Jewish lobby is not the only powerful lobby. How many bills has the NRA 'shot' down or 'winged'? And there are a number of others. To see government or candidates as under the control of the Jewish lobby while ignoring others is to veer deeply into IGTG territory. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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TUM wrote:
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| The Jewish lobby is not the only powerful lobby. How many bills has the NRA '*beep*' down or 'winged'? And there are a number of others. To see government or candidates as under the control of the Jewish lobby while ignoring others is to veer deeply into IGTG territory. |
Agreed TUM, I don't doubt that for a second that there are a number of groups that have an influence through donations or civil servants placed that will be an advantage for the companies. Bush and his Oil Companies, Cheney and his construction companies. These affect policy in America. The Jewish backing is a lot more obvious, and is a lot more divisive especially on the global stage.
We might be upset by Bush not signing environmental treaties but when it comes to the death toll in places like Iraq and Israel people need to question more the interests of groups behind the government. Democracy it is not. |
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