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Criminalizing Home Schoolers
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mistermasan



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, i'll say it....Hitler also outlawed homeschooling. how can a kid get his full doses of patriotism and full indoctrination in standing around and being reduced to a number if they don't go to gov't school?

...pursuit of happiness...blah,blah, blah...

but schools get money based upon the number of kids enrolled. every kid not enrolled, according to some thinking, "costs" the school money. now that kids are required to be there, more tax dollars are "captured" by the district. hooray.
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
In a public school education, a student will be exposed to several dozen adult minds, some of whom will have new points of view. In addition, a student will be exposed to classmates who have a divergent point of view.




Ya-ta Boy wrote:
I'd far rather have the religious nuts keep their kid at home, rather than send him to me and give me one more thing to worry about.


[/quote]
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ernie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the US government is looooooooong past being out of control...
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JustJohn



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Fair enough in some ways. Lots of kids might be getting sh.ort-changed by their not-too-bright parents.


Um, no. Not fair enough.


Some kids may be getting short changed, but I assure you, it's hardly the norm. I grew up in a community where home schooling was fairly popular, and the home schoolers were always considered the "smart kids." Usually stupid parents are also too lazy to want to home school.

I believe it would not be exaggerating to say this is an outrage.
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mistermasan



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the kids i knew who were home schooled were light years ahead of us.they could carry on real conversations with adults, were natural leaders and self motivated. they didn't have any of the "following skills" tht school necessitates.
one kids dad was a stone mason and the kid would go to work with dad. they did some work for us (bricking up an old fireplace and some tuckpoining). it was a beautiful thing. this 8 year old kid carried on like an adult. they would just talk about everything and anything. they would talk and "school stuff"would come up. they's talk about how to cut a stone and they'd do the math for the angles and such in the dirt and then they'd do the work. great way to learn math:in reality and not merely by the book.

but, yes...small sample size.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistermasan wrote:
the kids i knew who were home schooled were light years ahead of us.they could carry on real conversations with adults, were natural leaders and self motivated. they didn't have any of the "following skills" tht school necessitates.
one kids dad was a stone mason and the kid would go to work with dad. they did some work for us (bricking up an old fireplace and some tuckpoining). it was a beautiful thing. this 8 year old kid carried on like an adult. they would just talk about everything and anything. they would talk and "school stuff"would come up. they's talk about how to cut a stone and they'd do the math for the angles and such in the dirt and then they'd do the work. great way to learn math:in reality and not merely by the book.

but, yes...small sample size.


Not true where I grew up. The home schooled kids I knew were not socially adjusted and could not even come close to interacting in the business world.

Also, small sample size...
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I pointed out in another thread, home schooled kids are generally more social and academically apt then their peers. Their parents tend to be better educated and richer than the norm which can explain this...I gave the link in that other thread. The thing about home-schooled kids being anti-social is pretty much a myth. Yes you have some misfits, but many homeschooled kids have brothers and sisters. Then you have some nuts...well if your parents are crazy you're not likely to be well-adjusted either. But it has very little to do with not going to school as wannago pointed out.


As for people not being qualified to teach...this is Korea. Apart from a handful of people here, who is qualified to teach back in their home country? And should they really be passing judgment on people they don't even know, who may very likely hold a teaching degree or certificate?
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matthews_world



Joined: 15 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just give the parents who teach a subsidized test. Give them the special permit when they pass. Seems logical to me.
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matthews_world wrote:
Just give the parents who teach a subsidized test. Give them the special permit when they pass. Seems logical to me.


And this is a great example of a major problem some home-school parents have with the public education system. Everything comes down to a test. The public schools have gone, more or less, to teaching to a test. If you want someone to monitor lesson plans or collect reports or even observe parents teaching, then that might actually give a much clearer picture of a parents' ability to teach than some damn test.

Then again, I don't think the government has any role in policing home schooling, especially those parents that do it for religious reasons. You lefties all wanted separation of church and state, this is a logical extension of that...isn't it?
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the kids i knew who were home schooled were light years ahead of us.they could carry on real conversations with adults, were natural leaders and self motivated. they didn't have any of the "following skills" tht school necessitates.


I 've known some kids in College that were home schooled and they were absolute social retards. They didn't think for themselves and seemed overly worried about little religious rules they had to follow. I was sick...also momma couldn't teach 'em advanced level algebra and their tutor only came once a week.....

on the other hand there are kids who do rather well. All depends on the parent though which is why even though I usually don't like homeschooling they have the right to do it...
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Funkdafied



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Location: In Da House

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a qualified teacher I would say home schoolers should be qualified to teach. There is a lot of skill and knowledge in teaching well.

Then again if it's mainly religious nuts who are doing it, who cares if they f thier kids up, they will f thier kids up whether the kids go to school or not. If a parent wants to lobotomise a kid and remove all sense of logic and sense of reality from the brain, they should go ahead, and it's probably better these "specimens" are kept out of the mainstream anyway.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funkdafied wrote:
As a qualified teacher I would say home schoolers should be qualified to teach.



There is a lot of skill and knowledge in teaching well.
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greedy_bones



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How exactly is this criminalizing homeschoolers? Homeschooling is still legal, but parents are required to have qualifications.

This is similar to saying that prohibition is still in effect because bars and restaurants are required to have a liquor license, or that medicine has been criminalized because doctors are required to have licenses.

Yes, there are many benefits to homeschooling, but there are also many drawbacks. Some kids gain adequate social skills without going to school, others do not. I suppose it depends on other factors. If parents involve their kids in social events with other kids on a regular basis, they'll probably gain social skills. Not all parents do that however. I've only met a few homeschooled people, and the ones I met did not seem adequately adjusted.

Personally, I think that public schools are the best, socially for kids. This environment exposes them to a much larger variety of cultures, personalities, and conflicts which are much more like the real world than the social fabric of a family. While, I think this is better, it still should be the parents' choice.

However, as every child has a right to a decent education, setting standards for homeschool is only logical. If a child doesn't receive food, shelter, or other necessities from their parents, the government can step in. Why should education be any different?
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Been There, Taught That



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
In a public school education, a student will be exposed to several dozen adult minds, some of whom will have new points of view. In addition, a student will be exposed to classmates who have a divergent point of view.




Ya-ta Boy wrote:
I'd far rather have the religious nuts keep their kid at home, rather than send him to me and give me one more thing to worry about.


[/quote]
"Points of view are. at their most basic, nothing more than opinions, something the moral point of view is always accused of being. How many points of view does one need to learn how to be a moral, upstanding, contributing part of society? How many points of view does the Bible offer? Does a truly moral individual--morality always has to think at the individual level--waver between points of view, or welcome differing opinions about how to be moral? Do public schools produce truly moral individuals or young people who argue and reject differences between right and wrong? Whose responsibility is it, presently, to oversee what schools teach; to oversee what homes teach?

How can we look at Western--or any--society and argue that we are producing educated individuals cheerfully and consistently in line with the general societal norm of morality (don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc)?
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nicholas_chiasson



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greedy_bones wrote:

However, as every child has a right to a decent education, setting standards for homeschool is only logical. If a child doesn't receive food, shelter, or other necessities from their parents, the government can step in. Why should education be any different?

Why not give them free crack? Why should they pay for it? Delaware public schools-where drugs were cheaper than beer.
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